Maybe a last grasp at Peter Henry Harrison

[Merry]

There are 683 birth registrations in Rotherham 1885 Q3. If half are girls that's about 350 births for boys to eliminate!! lol And that's if Peter was born there and around July 1885 and was registered.

[kiterunner]

Originally Posted by Merry

There are 683 birth registrations in Rotherham 1885 Q3. If half are girls that's about 350 births for boys to eliminate!! lol And that's if Peter was born there and around July 1885 and was registered.

I went through, didn't spot any Italian-looking names, and picked out those with no MMN on the GRO site (it seemed like a place to start!) and have found infant deaths or 1911 census entries for all of those except:
Harry Hartley
Fred Armitage Jennings
Arthur Kaye or Raye
Charles William Shaw
Joseph Ward.

Though there is another Joseph Ward born in Rotherham in 1886 so I'm not sure which of them is on various censuses.

[Merry]

I looked at as many Rotherham Italians as I could find on the censuses to see if any had sons the right age (no). Also checked birth regs and used the Italian surnames as mmn on FMP in case a married sister/dau etc had a baby, but no joy with that either.

[Margaret in Burton]

It’s a needle in a haystack.

[Merry]

Fred Armitage Jennings' parents married in 1886 (Fred Wyndham Armitage and Mary Jennings). FWA died before 1901 and Fred jr and the rest of the family are living with his paternal grandmother after that. Here he is in 1911:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...3?pId=38493383

so, eliminated.

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Margaret in Burton

It’s a needle in a haystack.

Yes I agree.

The trouble is, it's most likely one of the Italian men in the area fathered a child with a British woman but there's nothing in the records to show this. If she was married she probably passed it off as her husband's child or believed it to be her husband's child. I can imagine the temptation to call the baby Mario or whatever would soon be put aside to avoid any scandal, unfortunately.

Perhaps Peter was not wanted because it came out that his mother's husband was not the father? This could have happened at any point in his childhood.

[Olde Crone]

I tend to think he was illegitimate - either at birth, as it were, or later in childhood because it became known he wasn't a child of the marriage. I feel this because of his statement "I wasn't wanted, that's all you need to know". Illegitimacy was so shameful back then, most people tried to hide it. I have a branch of a family who were farmed out to various relatives when their mother died. They weren't wanted either, but they were all at great pains to tell you about it and carried great resentment all their lives, so I feel the secrecy on PHH's part was shame and concealment.

Neighbours often know the truth of things and I'd bet the "little Italian" remarks were based on knowledge, not just random insults, lol.

Not sure how any of that will help though.

OC

[kiterunner]

From my post #52 we can rule out Harry Hartley - his mother married Septimus Brookes and he is down as Harry Brookes on the 1911 census.

[kiterunner]

Also I have found a likely Charles W Shaw on the 1939 census but he is not with his wife on the 1921 census to see birthplace and check for sure. But anyway, Charles William Shaw was baptised on the 14th Jul 1885 so his birthdate is too early.

[Merry]

So Joseph Ward and Arthur Kaye or Raye to go?