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Old 26-07-21, 11:52
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Default Better than a Mayor!

I have been wandering around Google today looking for information on Thomas Terrell/Tyrrell who was a Mayor of Reading 1699-1712.

If Thomas is the father of my 6x great gran, Mary Terrell who married John Trumplett in 1719, then wow, there is a lot of information to digest.

Apparently, Thomas was the nephew of William and Richmond Terrell who set off to settle in Virginia in the late 1600s. Some very clever Americans seemed to have traced the Terrell genealogy back to King Edward I! Famous names among them - Plantagenet, Fitzalan, Throckmorton, de Clare and Despenser.

But why did they stop at Edward I? Surely the line could go further back?

I am not taking it for gospel, I need to do my own research.

There is my task for the rest of our Sydney lockdown - see if I can follow the line back from Mary, to Edward and his ancestors! Could I be 45th cousin twice removed (or something like) to the Queen and I wonder how many others are?
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Old 26-07-21, 15:25
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Be careful what you wish for, they say! Just how many cousins can you handle, Marquette? That's exciting, though. Have fun!

And good luck with the lockdown. Very scary. Stay safe.
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Old 26-07-21, 21:52
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Thanks Janet,

Be careful indeed - I am taking it all with a grain of salt, but how cool would it be. Maybe some of it will explain the vast pool of US cousins who (where they trees attached to their DNA) have ancestors born in the US back to the 1700s.

I have seen those trees where they can go back to Adam and Eve, laughed, and never thought I would get anywhere back beyond the 1600s.

Wikipedia says that Edward's son-in-law Gilbert de Clare was known as Red Gilbert for his red hair - maybe that's where I get mine from! I am sure I never liked the greedy Hugh Despenser so I am not at all sure I want him for an ancestor.

However, the research will be fun, especially as we move away from the royal lines. Between watching the Olympics and researching this, I am sure I don't care if lockdown lasts another month.

We've been very lucky with our Covid but this is just a localised outbreak in an area of Sydney - the govt is worried because so many are migrants and apparently don't speak or understand enough English to get the message - stay home, get vaccinated, stay home.
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Old 27-07-21, 04:27
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I fervently hope it will prove to be indeed "just a localized outbreak", Marquette, but in my gut I'm worried. The speed and the virulence of the Delta variant over here is truly terrifying.

Envious of your red hair, I am.
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Old 27-07-21, 05:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marquette View Post
There is my task for the rest of our Sydney lockdown
You wont be upset if Gladys extends lock down then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marquette View Post
Could I be 45th cousin twice removed (or something like) to the Queen and I wonder how many others are?
Welcome to the family, potentially.

OH is supposed to be related to the Queen Mother, although I doubt it can be proven. The relationship is an illegitimate one and is stated to be acknowledged by the Lord in question but paperwork way back when is rare and I doubt I'll ever be able to prove it.

OH also looks to be descended from the Middleton's so related to Prince George and co. There is better paperwork out there I just haven't followed the trail to confirm or deny it.
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Old 27-07-21, 22:39
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So, I have looked back over the tree from Humphrey Tyrrell back to Edward I, and with some adjustments, it is pretty well documented in various places. It's the bit between Humphrey and Mary Terrell that I need to be more sure of.

And I need to work out how to make some kind of record for myself. I made an Excel spreadsheet with each person in a cell, but it difficult to add parents to each person without upsetting the layout. Needs some more thought.

I tried to work out how much, if any DNA I would have from these distant ancestors. The Ancestry lower limit of 6cMs can take your common ancestors back to your 5th or 6th great grandparents, but how much would you have from your 22nd great grandparents?

I share about 3500cM with my Dad - I rounded it up to 4000 for easy calculation - I figure that I would have less than 0.0005cM of Edward I's DNA - thats not counting that there may be cousin marriages along the way, still it would be way less than 0.001 of a centimorgan.

And just think - Richard Fitzalan (1314-1376) and Isabel le Despenser (1312-1356) were married at 13 and 14 and had their marriage annulled in 1344, making their son Edmund, illegitimate and unable to inherit his fathers Earldom - that went to his half-brother Richard. Imagine, I may not be here if he had become the Earl of Arundel.

I have to say being declared illegitimate, does not seemed to have lowered his standing in the world.

I have always been fascinated by the "great" families, how they are related to each other, so now I have a real reason to spend time investigating them.
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Old 27-07-21, 22:52
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You would not have a significant amount of DNA from that far back, if any at all.
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Old 28-07-21, 01:36
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You would not have a significant amount of DNA from that far back, if any at all.
Indeed. Such a small amount, totally unmeasurable.

The mind boggles over how many 22x great grandparents one would have, each contributing a minuscule amount of DNA to me.
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Old 28-07-21, 05:28
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Possibly not as many as you think. That far back, the chances of intermarriage between your ancestral lines is quite high. Probably higher if you connect to nobility or royalty.
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Old 28-07-21, 09:11
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Possibly not as many as you think. That far back, the chances of intermarriage between your ancestral lines is quite high. Probably higher if you connect to nobility or royalty.
Yes I am sure all those Kings, Earls and Dukes etc made sure they married off their sisters, nieces and even their widowed mothers to each others families.
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