the rylances of pemberton

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Qwackers

I agree with you merry that you are drawn to james and sarah fawkes . when i looked at them it seemed the most likely . than the others .

No, that's not what I said. James Rylance and Sarah Fawkes are definitely correct as the children have mmn Fawkes and the parents on the census have the correct first names to match with the marriage. It's the parents of that James Rylance I was wondering about in post #5.

[Olde Crone]

FWIW - James and Agnes later live at Kitts Green, as do James and Sarah.

OC

[Merry]

IF James Rylance and Agnes are the parents of James who married Sarah Fawkes, then this will be of interest, but again I can't stress enough that you might need to do more research to be sure of the connection.

James Rylance who married Agnes Heaton in 1854 said at his marriage that his father, also James, was dec'd. In 1871 his mother, Alice Rylance aged 62 is in his household. She is a widow on all census records where status is recorded and no sign of a husband in 1841.

James Rylance senr married Alice Winnard 26 Feb 1827 in Wigan.

They had three children baptised in Wigan: Elizabeth 1827, Thomas 1830 and James 1832. James was born 13 May and bap 01 Jul.

I looked for a burial for James senr imagining it would be most likely in the 1830s as Alice doesn't seem to have had any further children after these three.

Of course there was more than one possible burial for James and I thought it might be impossible to determine the correct entry.

However, it looks like Alice's husband was killed in a mining accident at Kit Green on 15 Dec 1831 aged 23. This came to my attention because there were well over 20 burials on 19 Dec 1831 in Upholland when the normal number was about 3 per week.

There are lots of contemporary newspaper reports about this. Some of them list some of the dead (all copied from each other by the look of it), inc:

"James Rylance, who has left a wife very near her confinement, and two children."

Now, I haven't been able to find another James Rylance of a similar age with two children baptised in the preceding few years in this area. However, I wouldn't say someone who gave birth in May would be "nearing their confinement" in the previous December, but I suppose she would have known she was expecting, so the journalist exagerated a little.

I've not been able to find any modern-day mention of this particular incident despite the fact that 20 men and boys and 8 women and girls were killed. The colliery was named The New Engine Colliery and it was owned by Messrs Woodcock and Halliburton.

[Olde Crone]

That's a tempting find, Merry!

OC

[Qwackers]

hi merry , I looked at the marriages of James senior on wigan online parish clerk . there is the one you have mentioned . to agnas Heaton . 1854 residence wigan lane which is in the centre of wigan there is also a James Rylance and a ann robinson spinster married 1855 both of pemberton . his father william a collier . I don't know if you saw that one or not . ?

[Qwackers]

ann and james are living in pemberton on 1861 census with a baby margeret and a three year old william .

[Qwackers]

i was thinking perhaps pemberton being the connection. to the rylances .

[Qwackers]

i checked the 1851 census , james is living with parents in pemberton , william 54 born orrell and alice 53 born pemberton brother joseph 17 william 9 richard 4 and elizabeth 4 . they may have no connection . but was just exploring the possibilities as pemberton is the connection .

[Merry]

Here is the census birth info for James who married Sarah Fawkes after his Sept 1879 marriage (so we know this is definitely the right James whose parents you are looking for. In 1879 he said he was 21 and father James):

1881 b 1859 Wigan

1891 b 1859 Wigan

1901 b 1859 Wigan

1911 b 1859 Wigan

You have suggested James Rylance and Ann Robinson might be the parents for James b 1859 Wigan, but you haven't shown that they had a son James around this date. In fact you seem to have begun to show that they didn't (1861 census you mention in post #16).

Here are the registrations for the two children you mention:

RYLANCE, WILLIAM ROBINSON
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 75

RYLANCE, MARGARET ROBINSON
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 90

There is just about room for a James in between, but there isn't a registration for a James. Also no James on the 1861 census with them and no baptism for a James for this couple, so I'm not sure why you would think they are 'the ones'?

Here are the Wigan birth registrations for children named James Rylance around the right date:

RYLANCE, JAMES TALBOT
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 47
RYLANCE, JAMES HEATON
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 39
RYLANCE, JAMES AINSCOUGH
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 88
RYLANCE, JAMES BAYNES
GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 82

The father of the first one is Charles, so that's not the one. The parents of the second are James and Agnes who are mentioned up-thread. The father of the third is John, so that's not the one. The parents of the last one are the 'other' couple I wondered about and was hoping you would find and exclude or prove.

They are James Rylance and Ann Baynes who married in 1851. They appear on the 1861 census with four children including their son James aged 8 months b Pemberton. He is perhaps a bit young, but not young enough to be excluded. His baptism says he was born 26 Jul 1860.

There's good news for you (but not for the Rylance family) on the 1871 census. I'm definitely looking at the same James and Ann as three of the four children appearing with them in 1861 are still at home. However, their son James would appear to have died as they have named another son James and he is aged just 2 in 1871 so obviously can't be the groom in 1879!

Here's the death reg for their first son named James:

RYLANCE, JAMES 3
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 51 (his burial gives his address as Tanpits, which s where he was living with his family in 1861)

So that leaves just the child of James and Agnes as the groom in 1879.

[Qwackers]

thanks merry , i've been babysitting today and have only just got home i will digest what you have discovered after my tea . thanks