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  #21  
Old 07-06-21, 18:05
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Little Totnes has been a digression from the main theme of this thread, but for the record, as far as I can tell this was a district containing farmland just south of the town, and some fields there were owned in some capacity by a member of the Wise family. There was also the title 'Lord f the Manor' of Little Totnes, which seems to have had n income stream referred to as 'manorial dues'. I think that this had been in the Savery family since around 1570.
John Wise (1750-1807), the recorder of Totnes, had a sister named Mary, who married a Christopher Savery, and it is not unlikely that he or his father had purchased the right to those dues.

Back on Emmota/Willmett:

I note that the pedigrees published by Burke, Colby and Vivian all explicitly state that that John Wise, whose mother was Alice Harris, was the second son. The 1918 book written by Jennings Wise claims this John was the eldest son, (presumably because by then someone had noticed the age problem). I find it totally implausible that the elder son would move to Totnes and become the leading merchant in town, leaving his younger brother to inherit the family estates.

I also note that Christopher Wise (the elder) appointed as one of the executors of his Will written in July 1628 "my good friende and cossen Thomas Prestwood", who was also one of the witnesses. This Thomas Prestwood had been a merchant based in Totnes since about 1600 (see https://www.historyofparliamentonlin...omas-1570-1655 ).
He was mayor of Totnes in 1628 and 1643, MP in 1628-19 as well, but then took the wrong side in the Civil War. It seems that his eldest daughter, Frisweda, married Samuel Wise and his second daughter Susanna married John the son of William Wise, and from who all the subsequent generations of the Wise family in Totnes were descended.

This makes it all the more unbelievable that there were two unrelated wealthy men named William Wise, and two Samuels in Totnes at the same time.
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  #22  
Old 08-06-21, 13:17
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Reading the History of Parliament Online, and the will of William Wise in conjunction with the Totnes parish records:

William Wise made his will in 1625/6 when all his children, including John, were under age. His wife was Frysowyde (various spellings!)

Walter Goodridge made his will in 1626 naming his brother Thomas Prestwood and his sister Mary P. Walter also in his will mentions his aunt Babb. Savery, Brooking and Wise are some of the few Totnes names that I did not spot in her will - she names immense numbers of her extended family. (Improbable as it seems, it looks as if Mary Dowse married Geoffrey Babb in 1558)

Apologies for disappearing down rabbit holes, but I have connections with the Dowse family.

Samuel Wise, will made1633, has wife Wilmott and numerous children (several under age), including a daughter Fridiswid, clearly recently married to Thomas Triggs.

It seems more likely that It was William's widow who married Thomas Prestwood after his first wife Mary nee Goodridge died:

28 May 1646 Metc? Mrs? Fryswid Prestwood, wyfe of Mr Thomas Prestwood buryed
NB The couple were married in Totnes, but the clerk made such a meal of their names that I had to hunt under Thomas to find them.

In those circumstances it would be natural for his daughter to marry her son. (Though it is possible that Wilmott died and Samuel remarried)
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  #23  
Old 22-06-21, 01:03
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I am trying to document all this in a more formal way, and will eventually send a draft for comment, but with regard to Thos. Prestwood, Vivian is is the source (page 615) of the info that his second wife Frideswide was the widow of Samuel, and History of Parliament must have taken its info from there.
But in his Will Samuel names his 'wellbeloved wife Wilmott Wise' and he probably knew best.

Wikipedia (as of now) thinks Thomas the MP was the son of George, who was actually his brother (and Vivian says Thomas was executor of George's will).

The Will of Wilmott Wise, 'relict of Samuell Wise' is available. She spelled her name Wilmote. The Will was written in 1646 and proved in 1655. It mentions her son Christopher (married to Susan), and daughters Elizabeth Shapley, Fridiswide Trigges, Rebecca Bambridge, Sara Wise, and a brother Thomas Martyn (so she must have been WIlmote Martyn originally). But her Fridiswide was living and still married in 1646.
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  #24  
Old 22-06-21, 06:57
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I put my head in my hands when I read that will, as I have proved that my ancestor was Elizabeth Shapleigh, nee Wise. However "my" Elizabeth Wise was born in 1601, married in 1620 to Robert Shapleigh and had at least eight children by 1641.
Luckily, none of the Victorian genealogists realised there were Shapleighs in my tree, so I ploughed a virgin furrow. Otherwise, I might have had a whole load of myths to dispell.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-21, 22:27
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I think Samuel and Wilmote's daughter, Elizabeth, was baptised on 27 Jan 1610 and married John Shapley in Totnes on 16 June 1634. I think the one who married Robert Shapley on 20 Jun 1620 was Christopher's daughter, baptised as you said on 19 Jun 1601. John and Robert were probably both sons of an earlier John Shapleigh, who was mayor of Totnes in 1602 and again in 1618. Robert took his turn as mayor in 1657.

There was also another Elizabeth Wise, probably the daughter of Eustace, baptised on 18 Oct 1602,
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  #26  
Old 02-07-21, 08:13
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I have seen Chancery records which prove the identity of Robert Shapleigh's wife. There is an amazing description of his funeral, with all the costs itemised. From memory, it cost about £500, with wine being brought up river from Dartmouth to Totnes.
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