Elizabeth Jaffrey wife of Christoph Alt, Roxburghshire & Yass NSW MMFM

Thanks Shona so Isabella could be the fourth child to the John who married at Maxton. I had a thought about Isabella. I wonder if her death could be found in Paris, then if I bought her death certificate, would it give me her parents names??

It would be great to find the records of Nisbet Cemetery. Although if they do the traditional thing, they would probably bring them back to bury them at the church in Roxburgh. I am sure the current owners would have told me, if there was any evidence of burials at Kersmains. Julie

Shona .. Janet posted this on the death certificate thread .. I can't see it as I don't have an Ancestry sub .. but it was in French and looked very confusing as Janet said Isabella died 1858 - I can't copy the link

"Have a look at this, Julie.

Isabella Jaffray death 1858 Roxburgh age 67"
__________________

[Shona]

It's a different Isabella.

The info on the death cert is as follows:

Isabella Amos, wife of a shoemaker, married, died 3 November 1858, Ashkirk village, age 67, father James Jeffrey, agriculturalist (dec), mother Christian Jeffrey, maiden name, Turnbull (dec), cause of death softening of the brain about five weeks, buried in the parish churchyard of Ashkirk as certified by Thomas Waldie (?), undertaker. Informant, William Amos.

This Isabella was baptised in Stitchell on 24 Dec 1786. Her parents James and Christian married in Eckford on 6 May 1780.

So that still leaves the mystery of the Isabella, born in Kersmains, getting a pension in Paris.

Many many thanks Shona .. I feel we have a lead here, which is not something I thought possible without living in the Borders for 12 months.
I'm off to Sydney tomorrow to stay with my sis who is the carer for her OH. Not sure when I will get back home and although I will have internet access, I won't have Ancestry or FMP until things settle. I'm thinking a death cert for Isabella is the way to go, but not sure how to go about that. Anyhow thanks again. Cheers. Julie

[Shona]

It looks as if the Isabella Jaffrey, born in Kersmains in 1791, was a widow and the pension she received in Paris was a widow's pension.

The headings for the various columns read (my translation in brackets - someone correct me if I am wrong, please).

Noms et prenoms des veuves (name and forename of the widow):
Isabella Jaffrey

Naissance date (birth date):
17 Juillet (July) 1791

Naissance lieux (birth place):
Kersmains (Angleterre)

Quotite de la pension (amount of pension):
530f

Epoche de l'entree en jouissance de la pension (when the pension started):
3 Janvier 1864

Domicile (residence):
Paris (Seine)

Info is from the Bulletin de Lois de la Republic Francaise Vol 23

[Shona]

1841 Scotland

5 Castle Street, Edinburgh

John Jaffrey, 37, preacher, born Scotland
Isabella Jaffrey, 50, born Scotland
Marion Cunningham, 19, FS, born Scotland

So John would have been born c1804 and Isabella c1791. These dates fit in with the birth of the twins and the birth date that Isabella gives when she in getting a pension in Paris. Also John Jaffrey (poss father) died in Edinburgh.

[Janet]

Sorry for the red herring! Thanks, Shona. This is a really interesting thread, Julie.

Very interesting but very confusing .. At East Nisbet in 1841 John Jaffrey 80 and Helen Jaffrey 30 and in Edinburgh John Jaffrey 37 and Isabella 50 (big differences in ages and makes the relationships confusing .. Was the latter John info in the 1841 Census? I wonder what Isabella's maiden name was? You said John Jaffrey (poss father) died in Edinburgh ... are you referring to the will I have? Uggh too early in the morning to try and unscramble but more bricks for the wall .. Many thanks Shona and thanks for your interest Janet. Julie

[Shona]

I'm having a smashing time shaking the leaves, twigs and branches on your tree, Julie!

John Jaffrey has children baptised in Roxburgh parish from 1785 (Mary) until 1805 (unnamed twins - from Kite's Google book snippet find).

As it's the 1841 census, we can only make guesses, but it's possible that John and Isabella who appear in Edinburgh are John's senior's children.

The Helen who is with 90-year-old John in 1841 looks like a grand daughter. Proof is another thing, though!

Having got my eye in on all the name variations (and Scottish secretarial script), I had another look at the Horse Tax rolls and came across another Jaffrey.

Captain James Jafphrae, Kersknow, 11 horses, 11 liable for tax, £1 4s 9d duty.

Then I found the following:

3 June 1799, at Gilsand, death of Miss Margaret Jaffrey, third daughter if Captain Jaffrey at Kerskow.

She is the sister of the (different) Isabella that Janet posted about earlier.

6 May 1780 – James Jaffrey of Sprouston married Christian Turnbull of Eckford in Eckford. Here are the children that I have identified:

- Agnes Jaffrey, 16 May 1784, Stitchel, James and Christian Turnbull
- Isobel Jaffrey, 24 Dec 1786, Stitchel, James and Christian Turnbull
- James Jaffrey, 9 Jan 1790, Stitchel, James and Christian Turnbull
- Margaret Jaffrey, 6 Oct 1792, Stitchel, James and Christian Turnbull

What interests me about Captain James Jaffrey is that I find that James Jaffrey of Kersknow and John Jaffrey of Kersmains are both subscribers at Kelso Modern Library.

Just arrived Sydney to find you have been amazingly busy Shona wow..
My Eizabeth Jeffrey on her shipping said her parents were John Jeffrey and Ellen Thompson (born England), arrived Sydney 6 February 1855 on the ‘Nabob,’ 95 days out from Liverpool aged 26, kitchen /dairy maid. In 1851 census Betsey Jeffrey servant at Longnewton, in 1841 census at East Nisbet Elizabeth Jaffrey 12 with Helen Jaffrey 30, who I took to be Elizabeth's mother, aka Ellen Thompson. One thing consistent with Elizabeth was she said she was born Kersmains .. but Kersmains is a big estate belonging to the Duke of Roxburgh. Back when John Jaffrey was sold up .. see separate thread .. estate included a mill and their were actually 2 auctions to sell him up. Today the main house includes a big house, 2 cottages that are now joined to one and the bothy which is also linked .. there are big stabes for horses and a number of barns for the drying of barley for whiskey etc .. down the road are 4 cottages which would have been for the workers .. It is possible that Betsey may not have belonged to the main family but just shared the name .. unfortunately apart from the Census -records I have found no paper trail - no baptism of Betsey, marriage of her parents and so far have not identified her parents burial... Shona you are certainly estabishing lots of pieces of the puzzle which one day hopefully will come together .. uggh ...
At the Heritage Centre in Hawick there are estate papers that I did not copy, because they were so faint. These were names of workers at Kersmains and the wages that John Jaffrey owed them.. Maybe next year I will need to go through them very carefully and see if I can find Jaffrey and variants or Thompson as workers on the estate..
Many many thanks Shona you have certainly put a lot more twigs and branches on the tree which one day .. hopefully soon .. will bear fruit .. Cheers. Julie