Who Do You Think You Are - Gemma Collins 26th Sep

[kiterunner]

I also found this which says that a previous WDYTYA celebrity once lived on Angela Street:

https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co....-dies-aged-83/

[Ann from Sussex]

Originally Posted by kiterunner

I also found this which says that a previous WDYTYA celebrity once lived on Angela Street:

https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co....-dies-aged-83/

Ah, so it was/is in Shoreditch. It isn't listed in my London A-Z.

[HoxtonLad]

I think that the researchers have made a major error on this programme.
Emma's grand mother's parents were William Williams and Daisy Maria Dutton, who married in March 1928, On their Marriage certificate it gives Williams' Father's name as William Williams, a Bricklayer. This Ties in with the 1901 Census where William senior and his wife Thirja lived with their 3 young Children
Thirja Moore cannot be related as she married Alfred William Holland in September 1881'
I think there is a massive coincidence insofar that Thirja and Alfred Holland had 2 daughters called Nora and Julia. Thrja and William Williams also had 2 daughters called Nora (Honora) and Julia, in addition to their son William Williams Jnr. Both pairs of sisters were approximately the same age and they all lived in Spitalfiields.
I can find no details of William Williams Snr marrying Thirja (possibly Moran) and I can find no record of the births of William Williams Jnr (1899), Honora Williams(1896) or Julia Williams (1898)
I have a feeling that they may possibly have all been born in Ireland and the Family moved to England just before the 1901 Census
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated

[kiterunner]

Welcome to the forum, HoxtonLad. If you read my posts and Crawfie's posts on this thread (posts #9-#21), you will see that it is the same Thirza (also the same Nora and Julia), but you are right that she didn't marry William Williams - this is presumably because she was already married to Alfred William Holland.

Also see post #7 for a link to the 1901 census entry - their birthplaces all given as Spitalfields.

[HoxtonLad]

Originally Posted by kiterunner

Welcome to the forum, HoxtonLad. If you read my posts and Crawfie's posts on this thread (posts #9-#21), you will see that it is the same Thirza (also the same Nora and Julia), but you are right that she didn't marry William Williams - this is presumably because she was already married to Alfred William Holland.

Also see post #7 for a link to the 1901 census entry - their birthplaces all given as Spitalfields.

Thanks for your reply and help: Norah have so many different DOB's in these school records. Nora, on her baptism record 31.12.1895 (as Nora Holland)
St. Joseph's admission 26.9.1896 (as Nora Williams)
George Yard School 11.3.1896 (as Nora Williams)
Julia, Baptism record 19.12.1897 (as Julia Holland)
St Josephs admission 2.9.1898 (as Julia Williams)
George Yard School 30.11.1898
also 1939 Register living still with Thirza 17.12.1896

The only sibling that is constant is William with a DOB of 17.12.1899

On the Register of Births Nora Holland is given as registered on 4th 1/4 1896
and Julia Holland is given as registered on 1st 1/4 1898
I think on balance they probably are the same people but its amazing how many different DOB's there are.
William Williams Jnr was my Grandfather too, so I have a great interest in finding out about my ancestors so I am presuming that William Williams Snr and Thirza Moore never married and that Nora and Julia just had their surnames changed to make life easy.
However, try as I may may I can find no birth records for William Williams Jnr (or as a Holland) who was born on 17.12.1899

[kiterunner]

No, I have tried to find William jr's birth registration too with no luck.

[Phoenix]

I didn't see the whole programme.

It would be interesting to get Nora and Julia's birth certificates, now pdfs are so cheap, to see where the family were living, what the father's occupation was, and who the informants were.

Do we know what happened to Alfred William Holland? Or the older children? There are so many possible scenarios. They include:


1. Alfred was father to Nora, Julia and William, and changed his name to avoid creditors/the law
2. William Williams was father of the three youngest, Alfred having vanished many years earlier


not that I'm nosy!

2.

[kiterunner]

I haven't managed to find out what happened to Alfred and the older children.

[HoxtonLad]

Nora Holland was born 4th 1/4 1896 in Shoreditch GRO ref 01C page 103
Julia Holland was born 1st 1/4 1898 in Shoreditch GRO ref 01C page 18

Can't find any trace of William's Birth either as a Williams, Holland or a Moore

Although Thirza Moore and Alfred Holland married in 1881 I can't any trace of any earlier children

Were Alfred Holland and William Williams Sr. the same person ?, I can find no details of Alfred W Hollands death yet we know that William Williams Sr died in the workhouse in 1902

Of course we must remember that Dorset St in Spitalfields had some interesting characters back in the day

William Williams Jr marriage certificate in 1928 to Daisy Dutton shows his father as William Williams a Bricklayer, which ties in with the 1901 census

[HoxtonLad]

Originally Posted by kiterunner

I haven't managed to find out what happened to Alfred and the older children.

Were there 3 older children to Julia, Nora and William jr. ?