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  #11  
Old 05-09-22, 21:37
Olde Crone Olde Crone is offline
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At the risk of muddying the waters, would Lorenzo Harrison be worth investigating? Lorenzo seems an unusually Italian name for a Harrison. I'm thinking he would have dropped that name of he was angry at the Italian connotation. He wasn't born in Rotherham though. Sorry if this is a stupid idea!

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Old 06-09-22, 06:35
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Though Lorenzo's birth has no middle name:

Births Sep 1885
Harrison Lorenzo Guisbro' 9d 487

his baptism is Lorenzo John Harrison:

Lorenzo John Harrison bap 20 Sep 1885 at Kimberley, Holy Trinity, Notts, parents Henry and Elizabeth Harrison

This is probably his dath reg:

Deaths Sep 1954
HARRISON Lorenzo J 70 Basford 3c 64

In 1911 he and his wife (m 1910) are here (Ancestry have his first name as Lorenz):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...c1&pId=5279562

in Kimberley Notts whilst PHH is in Ashby de la Zouch.
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Old 06-09-22, 07:45
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Ah right, Thank you Merry. Definitely a stupid idea then!


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Old 06-09-22, 08:15
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It's never stupid to eliminate someone

I was thinking about this 'little Italian' 'insult'. I wondered why Italian in particular? I don't think he looks particularly Italian and a lot of men were short, so I don't know how significant his height would be. I see from his army papers that aged around 18 (1903) he was 5'4 7/8" so, short by today's standards, but not so much for that time frame.

So...why little Italian? Not small Spaniard or tiny Frenchman? I feel as if the nickname must have come from something he himself had said and then perhaps regretted mentioning - people can be so quick to pick up on something and not let it go if they think it irritates, but they just think it's funny. Of course just because others, or Peter himself, thought something doesn't make it true, unfortunately.

Marg, I am not liking your use of the phrase "last grasp" lol We can never give up!!

Hve your daughters got any close(ish) DNA matches that you suspect come from PHH's line, or are they all from other parts of their tree?
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Old 06-09-22, 08:33
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Margaret in Burton Margaret in Burton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry View Post
It's never stupid to eliminate someone

I was thinking about this 'little Italian' 'insult'. I wondered why Italian in particular? I don't think he looks particularly Italian and a lot of men were short, so I don't know how significant his height would be. I see from his army papers that aged around 18 (1903) he was 5'4 7/8" so, short by today's standards, but not so much for that time frame.

So...why little Italian? Not smallish Spaniard or tiny Frenchman? I feel as if the nickname must have come from something he himself had said and then perhaps regretted mentioning - people can be so quick to pick up on something and not let it go if they think it irritates, but they just think it's funny. Of course just because others, or Peter himself, thought something doesn't make it true, unfortunately.

Marg, I am not liking your use of the phrase "last grasp" lol We can never give up!!

Hve your daughters got any close(ish) DNA matches that you suspect come from PHH's line, or are they all from other parts of their tree?

He was livid that my father in law wanted to marry an Italian girl and bring her back to England. Refused to allow it. Fil was stationed in Italy during the war and ate with an Italian family. He loved Italian food and as he wouldn’t touch any other ‘foreign’ food I asked him why. He said he’d had the proper thing during the war with a family. I asked why would this family singled him out. He replied, rather sheepishly, there was a girl involved. I found a photo after he died and OH and I didn’t know who it was. I asked his younger brother and he said it was the Italian girl he’d wanted to marry. He’d kept her photo all of that time.

As for daughters matches. Kate is looking through them. There’s one obvious one to me. OH’s first cousin. She has 18% Northern Italy and 1% southern Italy. She is older than OH, born in 1948 and one of twins. We don’t have anything to do with them, and they wouldn’t know anything anyway. She has a tree and it’s wrong. She has the Peter in York. She’s very scatterbrained

Other than her they are all other side of the family so far.
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Old 06-09-22, 08:51
Olde Crone Olde Crone is offline
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Merry, that's why I was drawn to Lorenzo. I was thinking that he dropped the name because it was too Italian, but some people knew his real name and why. I know this isn't him, but as you say, why "little Italian"?

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Old 06-09-22, 09:00
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Of course a lot more people were very openly 'racist' then, along with being sceptical about the lifestyles and food preferences of other nationalities, so not wanting someone to marry an Italian might not be anything more than being scared of something you are not sure about.

https://www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk...ion-to-britain

Of course an Italian would be Catholic - would that have been a reason to not want a family member marrying one?
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  #18  
Old 06-09-22, 09:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry View Post
Of course a lot more people were very openly 'racist' then, along with being sceptical about the lifestyles and food preferences of other nationalities, so not wanting someone to marry an Italian might not be anything more than being scared of something you are not sure about.

https://www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk...ion-to-britain

Of course an Italian would be Catholic - would that have been a reason to not want a family member marrying one?
Father in law and his siblings were brought up Methodist. Mother in law was brought up Catholic but didn’t follow it once she was an adult. OH wasn’t brought up with any religion really other than baptism.
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Old 06-09-22, 09:13
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I don’t think a middle name is important. I think he gave himself that name. On his marriage cert in 1908 he’s just Peter Harrison. Apparently he was sometimes referred to as Harry but I think that’s just a shortened version of Harrison. His army record says Peter Henry but as it’s from 1913 when he rejoined before WW1. I’m not convinced he was born with a middle name.
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Old 06-09-22, 12:44
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It’s looking like one parent if not both were Italian.

Peter, when asked about his family, refused to say anything, just said that all they needed to know was that he wasn’t wanted.

To me, that says adopted, abandoned or something. Some years ago I did get Rotherham archives to search the workhouse records. They didn’t find anything and also said some were missing.
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