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  #11  
Old 29-05-21, 21:12
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btw, Nicholas Wyse on the Visitation left a will. He died in London, but names brothers Thomas and Perse. wife Elizabeth, brother in law John Drew in Cornwall, his sister, young brother Lawrence and father in law Lawrence Foxley.

His poor widow made her will just a month later.
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  #12  
Old 31-05-21, 00:43
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Yes, I went back and read your original post pointing out that John the Elder had to be younger than Thomas of Sydenham. So the reference in his Will to his daughter Elnor Austin and the marriage record for Elnore Wysse and Tomas Awstyn in 1574 does negate the tidy theory of the Emmet/Wilmet mix-up.

That leaves he question of William and Samuel: were they half-brothers or distant relatives? The 1605 charter of the Spanish company lists the 557 original members, of whom 43 were from Totnes (many more than from any town other than London, Bristol and Exeter). Of those, 6 were named Wise: Christopher, John, Eustace, Samuel, William and Nicholas. It would be cool to think of them as 6 brothers.

However, the John Wise who married first Mary Full and then Dorothy Brooking, was the son of William Wise, so it looks as though there were two Williams and two Samuels living at Totnes at that time. Is that your conclusion?

A book called "The Good Town of Totnes" first published in 1964, states that a Roger Wise was a substantial householder there in 1425, and in about 1439 Reginald wise leased land to build houses outside the main gate.
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  #13  
Old 01-06-21, 09:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpb View Post

However, the John Wise who married first Mary Full and then Dorothy Brooking, was the son of William Wise, so it looks as though there were two Williams and two Samuels living at Totnes at that time. Is that your conclusion?
Help! When was this John living? I cannot find either marriage (though I suspect that marriage settlements were more important than any church service) or references in wills.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-21, 01:08
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John Wise, baptised 8 Feb 1635, died 26 July 1702. First wife, Mary, daughter of Lewes Full of Ash, died 21 Nov 1677. Second wife, Dorothy, daughter of Christopher Brooking, died 21 March 1693.
This John is shown in Vivian as the son of John Wise who died in 1670, and his wife, Susanna Prestwood, who died in 1684.
I have a note that according to a document in the Cheshire Archives (ref. DBW/J/A/3, dated 1736), a property had been divided into 3 parts after the death of one Lewes Full, the split had been agreed to by Mary Sawle, daughter of Mary Wise, (a sister of Lewes Full and the wife of John Wise of Totnes gentleman, deceased); John Wise of Totnes Esq. and Lewis Wise of New Inn, Middlesex, only surviving sons of the said John Wise, deceased, by his second wife, Dorothy.

I also have verified that the first edition of Burke's 'Commoners', published in 1835, contained a pedigree supplied by Ayshford Wise, more or less the same that was later incorporated into the books by Copley, Vivian and Jennings Wise. It claimed descent from the John who was married to 'Emma Vavasour'. The article is suspect on other ways: it states that the ownership of the manor of 'Little Totnes' came into the Wise family in 1602, but another source (A Graphic and Historical Sketch of the Antiquities of Totnes
By William Cotton) states that in 1730 it was still owned by one Waltham Savery, and was acquired by the Wise family after that date.

I am therefore now almost totally convinced that Wise family in the 18th 0r early 19th century made the convenient mistake of confusing one John Wise (second son of John and Alice, whose descendants could claim the use of his coat of arms) with their ancestor John Wise the Elder, who was not an armiger.
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Old 03-06-21, 11:02
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Waltham Savery looks as if he belongs to the Savery family of Slade, and it looks as if there are IPMs for that family, which should mention the property if it were owned by them post 1602.

This might be an easier route, if time consuming:

Devon Record Office: OKLEY PARKER OF SHARPHAM
This record is held by Devon Archives and Local Studies Service (South West Heritage Trust)

See contact details

Reference: 90M-0
Title: Devon Record Office: OKLEY PARKER OF SHARPHAM
Description:

A collection of about 800 deeds with a small amount of estate papers and four estreat rolls. The estate comprises Sharpham, with its House, Ashprington manor, including Langham Woods, Hollabeare, Frogmore, Tibbecombe, and World's End; Wood Barton at Blackawton; the Little Totnes estate; Combeshead at Diptford; and the Washbourne estate in Harberton and Halwell. The chief interest of the collection lies in the position of the lands, along the navigational Dart, and in the attraction exercised by it to naval families. The estates were built up in three stages; in the mid-18th century by Captain Philemon Pownoll, R.N. (the builder of the present Sharpham House) and Israel Pownoll, master shipbuilder; in the early 19th century by John Bastard (of another naval family), and in 1844-5 by Richard Durant. The records end abruptly at this point. The several histories of the different pieces of property can be pushed back, in most cases to the mid-16th century. Traces of earlier, but since destroyed, estates appear. In particular, those of the Giles family of Bowden, and the Blackallers of Sharpham, whose property passed to Gilbert Yarde of Bradley about 1700. Smaller families were the Knowlings of Washbourne, and the Moyseys, Perrotts and Cockeys of Ashprington. A good many merchants and lawyers of Totnes and Dartmouth are also represented. The collection provides a useful and not too bulky source for study of the life of the South Hams from 1540 to 1844. See of 2 articles by Marcus Binney on Sharpham House in Country Life April 1969, 1797Z/.
Date: 1538-1871
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  #16  
Old 03-06-21, 18:37
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Have looked at TL Stoate's Devon Surveys. In the 1520s, there are Wises scattered all over Devon, but only rich ones in Marystow, and none in Totnes.
None in Totnes in the 1540s either, but there are a couple in Dawlish.
In the 1619 survey of shipping there are two sailors in their twenties in Dawlish, one called Christopher.
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  #17  
Old 04-06-21, 00:51
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"History of Parliament online" says that Richard Savery of Harberton (c.1502-1572), younger brother of Christopher, bought the manor of Little Totnes from the 2nd Earl of bath in 1542. I don't know if this just covered the 'manorial rights' i.e. taxes, or also the actual real estate.
Christopher's descendants are better documented than Richard's. Nine generations later, his descendant, another Christopher (born 1758), married the daughter of John Wise of Wonwell. I am not sure how Waltham was related to that Christopher, or if it matters. But this reinforces my sense that the Wises in Totnes in the 18th and early 19th centuries were obfuscating their roots.

Ayshford Wise MP, had at least two sons. One John Ayshford Wise, became MP for Staffordshire. His younger brother, Reginald, was convicted of fraud and transported to Australia in 1847.
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  #18  
Old 04-06-21, 07:29
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Because I'm lazy, I'm popping the History of Parliament Online reference here: https://www.historyofparliamentonlin...ichard-1503-72


It's really useful, because it refers to two theses on Totnes. Looking at Stoate, it's fascinating how, within a few generations, the surnames of the town had changed.
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  #19  
Old 05-06-21, 01:04
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I've been following this thread with interest.
Not sure if it's been mentioned above and I missed it, but there is a lengthy description of the Wise family in Worthy's Devon Wills.
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  #20  
Old 05-06-21, 23:04
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Thank you, Pinefamily. We all of us have to be grateful to transcribers of wills they are often all we have to aid us in disentangling families. However, by the time he reaches the Tudor period, he is accepting others' conclusions.

In Stoate's Devon Taxes
1581 Survey for Tottnes Parish
John Wysse goods £16 (no other Wises named in the parish)
Meanwhile, Joan Saverye wid has lands £6
Nicholas £4, Christopher £8, Stephen £13 - all lands.
Total assessment for the parish £37 8s 4d

Stoate says that this is not a reflection of their actual wealth: nobody seems to have been assessed on more than £20 of goods, nobody was assessed on wages, and the shift was towards land - which means freeholders. They were assessed in total 4s in the pound on land (20%!) and 2s 8d in the pound on goods (13.2%)

In the 1647 Assessment, a membrane is missing for Totnes, and some 60 entries are illegible.

Miraculously, an entry is legible for Mr Savery of Slade who is assessed 2s for the manor of Little Totnes. The total assessment for the parish is £14 9s 0d.
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