Hitting a brick wall ???? - Genealogists' Forum

lorraine76 · #1 30-03-15, 23:53

Is it possible to find illegitimate children's fathers? Ive been trying to search my great great grandfather David Black born 1887 in gatehouse on fleet. On his his birth certificate it states his mother as Mary black and verifies he was illegitimate. From there it disappears until he marry my great great nan Esther attridge. Id love to know did Mary keep him , was he raised by his real dad ect. I know he was in the 2nd life guards.

I have his war records it states mother Mary address unknown and I'm pretty sure it says older brother George??

So any ideas on how or if I can move forward??

JBee · #2 31-03-15, 02:49

I found him on 1911 census in 2nd Life guards but couldn't find his birth entry to confirm place of birth.

Have you got his birth certificate?

Think it will be difficult to confirm his father - unless there was an order for him to pay ie bastardy bonds or kirk session minutes in Scotland.

kiterunner · #3 31-03-15, 07:18

Do you have a copy of his marriage certificate? It is just possible that there could be a father's name on there, though sometimes people gave the name of a stepfather or a made-up father's name.

Could you give us his army number, please? I'm having trouble finding his army records online to check whether it says older brother George.

Also, what information is given about his mother on his birth certificate? Occupation, address?

kiterunner · #4 31-03-15, 07:36

Ah, I've found some information (Soldiers Died in the Great War), showing that he was killed in action 31 Oct 1914 and his service number was 2725, previously 9767 in the Gordon Highlanders. But I still can't find the records that you mention with mother and brother listed? Would you be able to either post a link to them if they are available online, or scan them in and email me a copy, please? I can PM you my email address if you want to do this.

The Soldiers Died in the Great War record has place of enlistment / residence as Cork, so maybe he was brought up in Ireland?

kiterunner · #5 31-03-15, 07:38

Oh, and his marriage certificate is on ancestry with no father's details:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/47...l=ReturnRecord

Shona · #6 31-03-15, 07:39

Looking at the Commonwealth War Graves records and medal records, Trooper David Black (2725), born in Gatehouse on Fleet, was presumed killed in action on 31 October 1914. Husband of Esther Black of 52 Somerset Road, Farnborough, Hants. He was 26and had arrived in France on 8 October.

Although he was in the Household Cavalry Regiment in C Squadron of the 2nd Life Guards, he had previously been in the Gordon Highlanders (number 9767). He had enlisted in Cork in Ireland. It looks as if he was a professional soldier to me. Did he marry in Scotland? There is a chance that his father's name appears on that record. I have a (far to large!) number of people born illegitimate in my family tree where the name isn't recorded on the birth record, but is on the marriage record.

It's also worth checking the National Archives of Scotland to see if his mother tried to get financial support for the child.

Edit: Snap, Kate.

Shona · #7 31-03-15, 10:16

The Gordon Highlanders were in South Africa for the Boer War after which they returned to the UK. They were based in Glasgow from 1902, Cork from 1904, Colchester form 1909 and Plymouth from 1913.

Perhaps David enlisted with the Gordon Highlanders in Scotland and then enlisted with the cavalry when they the Highlanders were based in Cork.

From what I can see, David's mother was a farm servant and was living in Back Street, Girthon, when David was born. I think Girthon is in the parish of Gatehouse of Fleet.

Have you searched for subsequent marriage for Mary?

JBee · #8 31-03-15, 10:46

What did you see for place f birth?

lorraine76 · #9 31-03-15, 11:44

Thankyou ever so much for your help . He does state in his war records he was from gatehouse of fleet. Im just wondering did mary bring him up or maybe his father or a foster of some sorts. Id love to know who his father was but its looking like it maybe the end of the road as far as he is concerned , even mary seems to have disappeared after she had david , perhaps out of shame??

kiterunner · #10 31-03-15, 12:10

This is the info from the birth registration:

1887 Births in the Parish of Girthon in the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright
Name and Surname: David Black (Illegitimate)
When and Where Born: 1887 July Sixteenth 6 h 0m pm, Back Street, Gatehouse
Sex: M
Name etc of Father: blank
Name etc of Mother: Mary Black, Farm Servant
Informant: Mary Black, mother
When and Where Registered: 1887 July 26th, Gatehouse.

About to read through the war records...