Who Do You Think You Are - Celia Imrie 10th Oct

[Olde Crone]

To put it another way, if I had seen a programme advertised about the Howard/Norfolk family, I probably wouldn't have been interested enough to watch it.

OC

[kiterunner]

While I try and figure the Cators out, I have to say I don't understand why Celia was so proud of Frances Howard - who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to murder! And by the sound of it, her pardon was not on the grounds of innocence or mitigating circumstances, just because her family were influential?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

For the first time ever I turned off the TV before the programme had finished. If I'd wanted to know more about two or three specific Stuart courtesans I'd have gone to the library and borrowed a refence book.
I (and probably a lot more members on here) could wave in the air a tree going back to 10xgt grandparents - in my case to my ancestors John Lincoln and his wife Elizabeth of NW Norfolk. John's older brother Richard Lincoln and his wife Elizabeth were the 6th gt-gdparents of Abraham Lincoln. But I know nothing about most of the individuals, apart from bp, marr & burial dates, along with a few wills. The tree is dry and lifeless and would hardly make a rivetting TV programme. The episode tonight was too remote and the characters didn't breathe.

Jay

[kiterunner]

Celia's great-grandmother's entry in the National Probate Calendar:

1928

CATOR Isabella Maria of 4 Walton-street Kensington Middlesex widow died 1 December 1927 at Manor House Bexley Kent Probate London 3 February to Charles George Lumley Cator esquire and Harry James Shepard solicitor. Effects £17448 7s 9d.

[kiterunner]

So her great-grandparents look likely to be Charles Clive Cator and Isabella Maria Baker (likely marriage Oct-Dec 1865 Kensington.)

Edit - should be Charles Oliver Cator. There is a death for Charles Oliver F Cator Oct-Dec 1876 Bromley, age 40.

[kiterunner]

Charles Oliver Frederick Cator born 21 Apr 1836, baptised 29 Apr 1836 Skelbrooke, Yorkshire, parents Thomas Cator and Louisa Frances.

Thomas Cator married Louisa Frances Lumley 12 Oct 1825 Womersley, Yorkshire.

[kiterunner]

So here are Thomas and Louisa F Cator in 1851 in Skelbrooke, Yorkshire, with children including Charles age 14. Thomas is age 58, Rector of Kirk Smeaton and Incumbent of Womersley, born "Kent, Breckenham" (presumably should be Beckenham.)

Cator family in 1851

[kiterunner]

And there are public trees on ancestry which show Thomas Cator as the son of Joseph Cator born 1733 in Ross on Wye, Herefordshire, and his wife Diana Bertie, with Joseph being the son of John Cator and Mary Brough. I have these people in my tree. I have Joseph down as born 1733 in Southwark, Surrey, but his father did come from Ross on Wye.

My Cator ancestor is Martha Cator born 1729 Ross on Wye, daughter of Jonah and Martha. Jonah was born 1706 and is the brother of John Cator born 1703, the John who married Mary Brough. These are all Quakers, by the way.

If I remember rightly, John Cator and his descendants appear in Burke's Landed Gentry or something like that, so it should be easy enough to check whether Celia's ancestor Thomas Cator is the right one.

[kiterunner]

From "Landed Gentry 1855":



The late Joseph Cator, Esq, a merchant of high standing, s to Beckenham and the other estates of his uncle, John Cator, Esq in 1806. He m at Calcutta in 1780, Diana, sister of the late Admiral Sir Albemarle Bertie, Bt., KCB (of the ducal family of Ancaster) and by her (who d in 1829) left at his decease, in 1818, several children, of whom the eldest is the present John Cator, Esq of Beckenham, and the 4th, Rear-Admiral Bertie-Cornelius Cator.

No mention of Thomas by name, bother. I'm getting in a muddle now, will need to leave this till the morning. I think I have John Cator's will somewhere.

Anyway, looks pretty likely that Celia and I are very distant cousins, lol!

[kiterunner]

I just found Thomas Cator on ancestry in the Cambridge University Alumni and it says he was born 19 Feb 1790, son of Joseph, gent, of Beckenham, Kent, and Diana... married Lady Louisa Frances Lumley, dau of John, Earl of Scarborough...

Thomas Cator

So Celia's 2xg-grandfather Thomas Cator definitely ties up with my tree. Will have to figure out exactly how we are related tomorrow though!