Hitting a brick wall ????

[Mary from Italy]

Originally Posted by lorraine76

Or do you think there's 2 Mary blacks having illegitimate children at the same time??

No, unless anyone can see anything I've missed, I think your Mary is the mother of all the illegitimate children and also the girl mentioned in the newspaper article, born in Elgin, which means she isn't the one who was with the McCourty family in 1881. If you go further forward you'll find her in 1891 and 1901 as a dairy maid or farm servant.

She must have had a very hard life, poor girl.

[lorraine76]

I'm going to sign up to ancestry later on. I'm not able to see the post on findmypast as I'm not a member , genes reunited is just awful to navigate.

I'm guessing she went from pillar to post , its a shame she wouldn't release the fathers names. Maybe they were farm workers to or even head of house?

[Mary from Italy]

I think he or they were more likely to be farm workers or similar. A lot of families have stories about girls being impregnated by the lord of the manor, etc., but it's mostly wishful thinking.

[kiterunner]

Originally Posted by Mary from Italy

I've been trying to find a marriage for Margaret Sommers to a Black, with matching census references. I thought I'd found the right marriage, but it led to a family who looked entirely wrong on the censuses (especially as Mary's age and birthplace were all wrong).

However, I've found a very interesting newspaper article, which suggests that I may have found the right family.

This is the article; not sure if we're allowed to paste it onto the thread, Kite?

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/v...18940110%2f077

It relates to the fact that Mary and some of her children were given parish relief, and the interesting thing is that the article, published in 1894, says that Mary Black was born in Elgin 36 years ago (ie. about 1858), and moved with her parents to Crossmichael.

Elgin is miles away from Crossmichael, in Moray, which is where I found what I think may be the right family.

I don't think the terms and conditions of FMP allow for copying the image over but we are allowed to transcribe it, so here goes:

Aberdeen Journal 10 January 1894

ELGIN PAROCHIAL BOARD
A meeting of the Elgin Parochial Board was held yesterday in Elgin - Mr Robert Young, accountant, presiding.
Among the claims for relief from other parishes one of more than ordinary interest and importance came up for consideration. This was the case of a woman named Mary Black, born in Elgin 36 years ago, and who had gone with her parents to Crossmichael, in Kirkcudbrightshire. On the 10th November, 1891, she was committed to the Kirkcudbrightshire Poorhouse by Samuel Walker, the late inspector of the parish, and a statutory notice on the ordinary printed form was thereupon sent to Elgin, accompanied by a note that a statement of particulars would follow. No statement of particulars came to hand, however, until two years had elapsed, and meantime the woman and three of her children had been maintained in Kirkcudbrightshire Poorhouse, and chargeable presumably to the Elgin Board. Mr Young, as a member of the board, was deputed by the chairman to go to Kirkcudbright, and investigate the case. Meantime a large claim for upkeep and maintenance of the woman and her three children had accumulated against the Elgin Board. Mr Young advised that the Board of Supervision should be communicated with, with the view of taking some action on account of the extraordinary delay on the part of Crossmichael Parish. If Elgin be held liable for those four paupers, the cost already incurred will have amounted to at least £120, and the cost in future to about £60 per annum. This large sum will have the effect of upsetting the calculations of the estimates for the current year, and probably may cause an increase on the assessment for next year.

[Shona]

I think the father(s) of the children are likely to be other farm workers. I have plenty of examples of this in my family tree. Dairymaids had a bit of a reputation as well.

I agree with Mary that family history is full of stories of young women being impregnated by royalty, lord of the manor of some other pillar of the community.

One of my great-grandfathers was illegitimate and was raised by grandparents. Another great-grandfather was an agricultural labourer and got the farmer's daughter pregnant. In this case there are court papers detailing how much he was meant to pay for the upkeep of his child. The records are in the National Archives of Scotland.

Here are some notes I have made in my research:

In rural Scotland in the mid to late 19th century, illegitimacy was not uncommon. There were also a lot of early births with babies being born less than nine months after a couple married.

In the nineteenth century, changing farm practices and the habit of housing male and female farm labourers in neighbouring communal bothies away from the main farm house lead to an increase in illegitimate births.

The situation was further complicated by the Scottish custom of ‘handfast marriage’. If a couple stated before two witnesses that they intended to marry and took hands on it, they were regarded as married. Many of these irregular marriages were never recorded.

If an elder of the kirk heard or believed that an unmarried female was with child, the sinner would be called to appear before the Kirk Session - a sort of parish court which consisted of the minister and church elders - and asked to name the father.

Mostly, the unmarried female fornicators would name the father. Some men would deny responsibility, but normally they would normally admit their guilt. This is particularly so with small, close-knit rural communities where everyone knew was everyone else was getting up to.

The errant couple would usually be called to sit before the congregation and reflect upon their moral conduct. The church could demand a fine or other punishment from the parents of an illegitimate child. If the fine wasn’t paid, the father may be sent away to the army or navy.

The Kirk Session seemed to obsessed with the sexual activities of parishioners.

[Olde Crone]

I agree that the Lord of the Manor was often blamed for illegitimate births and I read an interesting article about this, called, I think, "Six degrees of illegitimacy"

If your daughter returned home pregnant and unmarried, she could be considered blameless if it was her employer or the local Squire - "Everyone knew" a young girl had to give in to them and she received much sympathy. Far more than if it were revealed she had been rolling around on the riverbank with Fred the cowhand!

I do have one twig where it is quite clear that the father was the local bigwig - he was JP among other things and overseer of the poor and he took out a Bastardy Bond against himself, lol. He paid up cheerfully for his (many) illegitimate offspring and these offspring occupied a slightly elevated position in the village and were referred to as "natural son of Thomas Holden Esq" etc.

Yes, the Scottish Kirk Elders were obsessed with sexual sin and the details the girls had to go into were titillating, to be frank.

OC

[Shona]

Originally Posted by Olde Crone

Yes, the Scottish Kirk Elders were obsessed with sexual sin and the details the girls had to go into were titillating, to be frank.

OC

Below are some snippets from the Girthon Kirk Session records which are transcribed on the Gatehouse Folk website.

Lorraine, you could make contact with the people who run the Gatehouse Folk website. The Kirk Session records transcribed are up to the 1860s. You never know what other records they may have...

1863 5th April Girthon Vestry, Rev Hugh Morton Jack
Mary Bailieff, at present residing with her sister in Gatehouse, confessed she had had a male child in uncleanliness on 1st March last. She produced a letter from Andrew Ronnie, 61 Edge Lane, Liverpool, dated 2nd April 1863 in which he acknowledged paternity of her child. Margaret Bailieff stated that Andrew Ronnie was a married man with a family of children.

1863 12th April Girthon Vestry, Rev Hugh M rton Jack
Isabella McLachlan, residing with her parents in Fleet Street, Gatehouse stated that she had had a female child in uncleanliness on 19th January last. The guilt was contracted in Kirkcudbright and Henry Dorrance, mason is the father of her child. His whereabouts are unknown.

Elizabeth Beach, residing with her father in Gatehouse confessed that she had had a female child on 31st March, last. The father of her child was William Fallas, shepherd from about Newton Stewart.

1863 14th June Girthon Vestry, Rev Hugh Morton Jack
William McLellan, farm servant in Culreoch and his wife Jane Tongue rebuked for ante nuptial fornication.

1863 28th June Girthon Kirk Rev Hugh Morton Jack
John Ferguson, ploughman, Cairnsmoor, Parish of Minnigaff and his wife Frances McKay of Gatehouse rebuked for ante nuptial fornication.

[Shona]

Gatehouse-of-Fleet comes under two parishes - Anwoth and Girthon.

Availability of Kirk Session records according to Family Search:

Anwoth
Minutes 1747–1752, 1770–1836, 1843–1932
Available at the National Archives of Scotland, Edinburgh, record CH2/14.

Crossmichael
Minutes 1735–1801, 1846–1849
Available at the National Archives of Scotland, Edinburgh, record CH2/388.

Girthon
Session Minutes 1694–1702, 1729–1742, 1821–1948
Available at the National Archives of Scotland, Edinburgh, record CH2/1526.

[kiterunner]

I heard that the Kirk Sessions have been digitised but that the digitised versions can only be viewed at the NAS at the moment, with plans to introduce an online subscription service. Not sure when this is likely to be launched though.

[JBee]

I did think OHs ancestors in one village bore all the illegitimate children of that surname in the parish until I read the kirk sessions. It was also interesting to find one man had fathered more than one child to different women as well as his wife!!

He was summonsed to appear but failed to do so yet one of the women had to appear 3 times. However it named the father of the child and where he was residing.