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  #151  
Old 27-05-22, 15:50
Qwackers Qwackers is offline
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yes your right
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  #152  
Old 28-05-22, 06:09
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Hi , do you think that william and mary are my ancestors of william hale , as the questions have been answered . the only thing that's bothering me now is william and mary's ages . she is a lot older than him . would it matter . ? And with regards to finding her birth if she is the right mother of william throws up the R.C records again ,if she was baptised at st anne's R.C the record won't be there to see they will be again held by the lancs archives Lol let me know your thoughts ?
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  #153  
Old 28-05-22, 08:13
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Great, 150 posts for me to read!!

So...

Post #15 kiterunner:

All we have about William Hale's birthplace is from the 1841 census, which is just "Yes" for born in Lancashire. I assume his death is the one which was registered Jul-Sep 1849 Ormskirk, age 54. Which would mean he was born about 1795.

Post #56 Me:

Burial: 5 Aug 1849 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
William Hale -
Age: 54 yrs
Abode: Ormskirk
Notes: Roman Catholic
Register: Burials 1846 - 1852, Page 266, Entry 2126
Source: LDS Film 1849664

Post #44 Me:

Burial: 15 Oct 1824 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
Samuel Hale -
Age: 33 yrs
Abode: Ormskirk
Notes: R Catholic
Register: Burials 1813 - 1825, Page 271, Entry 2162
Source: LDS Film 1849664

Burial: 6 Jul 1840 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancs.
Mary Hale -
Age: 77 yrs
Abode: Ormskirk
Notes: Roman Catholic
Register: Burials 1825 - 1843, Page 462, Entry 1906
Source: LDS Film 1849664

So, now you might want to look for baptisms for William and Samuel at St Anne's plus baptisms for the children of your William and Esther.

Mary Hale, bur 1840, could be the mother of your William and possibly also Samuel! Should you find records that link these people, Mary's death certificate should give the name of her husband if that was known to the informant.

Post #46 You:

Hi , just wondering if William Hale born in 1780 in aughton which is near Ormskirk could be Williams father ?

Post #47 Me:

Sensibly, he is to young to be the father of William born about 1795. William born 1780 might well be the one who married in 1802 to Mary Burrows.

Back to post #43 Me:

Marriage: 6 Dec 1802 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
William Hale - this parish
Mary Burrows - (X), this parish
Witness: Richard Woosey; John Hankin
Married by Banns by: Will Naylor Minister of Altcar
Register: Marriages 1784 - 1812, Page 190, Entry 762
Source: LDS Film 1849664

Post #122 You:

I have just had word back from lancashire archives. They say there is a catholic birth in ormskirk of a william Hale 1794 . father william mother mary .

Post #123 kiterunner:

You would need to find out if there are other births to the same parents before William's, and see when the first one was, to see whether the 1784 marriage is likely to be the right one or not.

Post #139 You:

i've had a reply to my request for a search for a samuel hale .The archives have said that i have to go and search at the archives myself

I did find a marriage for a william Hale and mary wilson in 1784 aughton but i don't think that the church is a catholic one

Post #140 Me:

Catholic marriages were illegal from 1754 to 1837, so it's not a 'problem' to find marriages of Catholic people in an Anglican church."

Don't you think the fact there are no obvious C of E baptisms on Lancs OPC for the Aughton couple is a good thing for you? You reallly need to get access to the Catholic records to establish when the parents of William (1794) began having children and when they had their last child. At the moment you are doing a jigsaw with only some of the available pieces.

The biggest issue would seem to be, there is no obvious burial for William Hale, the father of Wm bap 1794.

And then just the last few posts that I remember where we discussed some of what was on Mary Hale's 1840 death certificate that you have not paid for. At her death she was the widow of a William Hale.
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  #154  
Old 28-05-22, 08:15
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So, that's taken me well over an hour. Now on to your questions......

Quote:
Hi , do you think that william and mary are my ancestors of william hale
Yes, I think the 1794 Catholic baptism is your William and I think the 1840 death/burial is your William's mother.

Quote:
the only thing that's bothering me now is william and mary's ages . she is a lot older than him . would it matter . ?
Please can you tell me what the age difference is, because I have not found anything about Mary's husband's age in this thread, so I'm wondering if it's on a different thread, but don't have the energy to look.

Quote:
And with regards to finding her birth if she is the right mother of william throws up the R.C records again ,if she was baptised at st anne's R.C the record won't be there to see they will be again held by the lancs archives
To find Mary's baptism you need to know her maiden surname. You can't say the marriage in 1784 of Mary Wilson and Wm Hale is the right marriage because you have not researched the St Anne's Catholic registers to see when your couple began having children and when their last child was born. Really you either have to do this research yourself or pay someone else to do it. It's now just over four years since you said you would go to the record office yourself (post #37) and we have barely moved forward (or backward!) since then.
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  #155  
Old 28-05-22, 14:43
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Hi merry i'm sorry that you had to go through all the posts , i could have simplified it . I was under the assumption that you thought william who died in 1816 was mary's husband . so i've got that wrong . Yes i agree that mary is most likely williams mother . And to find her marriage to william i need to find her maiden name . Your right , it's four years , since i started the thread . I'm afraid i can't drive at the moment as i am waiting for surgery to my eye , and have to rely on other people to help me .Otherwise i would have gone to the archives , I would love to find all the answers to the questions , Mary's maiden name , was she born in Ormskirk , William Hale seniors death and birth . Your right it's a jigsaw with lots pieces that i can't put all together . But on the bright side we have got william jrs birth , and we know mary was a widow when she died and her husband was william . Somitbis at least something . I will try and sort out a day when someone can take me over and help me go through the fiche . maybe then will i find the answers to these questions . I have doubled checked for a possible death of william senior but as yet haven't come up with any .
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  #156  
Old 28-05-22, 14:49
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on the opc search there's only the mary willson marriage that comes up ,marriage william hale / to a mary start 1780 .
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  #157  
Old 28-05-22, 16:24
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i did find a baptism of a whilliam Hale in March 1765 to a samuel and Jane Hale . We do not know if william senior was a catholic . could this be his birth ? as the age is about right for Our Mary ?
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  #158  
Old 29-05-22, 08:10
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Quote:
I was under the assumption that you thought william who died in 1816 was mary's husband .
I think he is much more likely to be the husband of Mary Burrows who married in 1802.

Quote:
And to find her marriage to william i need to find her maiden name .
You won't know her maiden name until you find the correct marriage and you need to know more about the Catholic children of Wm and Mary before you can go anywhere with that.
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  #159  
Old 29-05-22, 08:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwackers View Post
i did find a baptism of a whilliam Hale in March 1765 to a samuel and Jane Hale . We do not know if william senior was a catholic . could this be his birth ? as the age is about right for Our Mary ?
I saw that one too. Yet another reason you should try and establish whether Samuel Hale born about 1791 is a child of your Wm and Mary as he would be named for his grandfather if this is the correct baptism for your William. However, until you have looked at all those Catholic records you don't know what else is out there.

Back in 2019 you said:

Quote:
But I did manage to find a marriage , between a Mary Wilson and and William Hale on the 1/Aug /1784 . At st Michaels in Aughton
but you neglected to say this William's occupation was recorded at the marriage. He was a staymaker. Unfortunately it's very unlikely the catholic records will give you an occupation in their records, but you should be aware of this in any case and that he might also be recorded as a tailor as many staymakers were.
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  #160  
Old 29-05-22, 16:49
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Hi yes merry your right as usual i need to see the catholic records for the births etc , specially to see if there is a samuel . and other children . so going to the archives is a must . thanks
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