Genealogists' Forum - We have branches everywhere!



Go Back   Genealogists' Forum - We have branches everywhere! > Research > Members' Direct Ancestors > Take One 3xGreat-Grandparent

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-12-12, 03:01
Sunny Kate Sunny Kate is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunny SE Queensland
Posts: 100
Default Thomas Druce FFMFF

Name - "official" name and what they were known as:
Thomas Charles Druce
Date and place of birth:
Possibly Witney, Oxfordshire ( as per 1851 census), birth about 1796
Names of parents
Unknown – possibly illegitimate son of ??
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Unknown
* About 50 years after TC Druce’s death the widow of one of his sons claimed TC was in reality the 5th Duke of Portland who lived a double life. A long series of court cases spanning about 10 years followed during which time no evidence of TC’s birth/ parents was ever discovered in spite of extensive searches by various people. In 1907 his body was exhumed and identified. The claim that TC was the Duke was proved pure fiction.
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
16 th October, 1816 married Elizabeth Crickmer at St James, Bury St Edmunds Suffolk
30 October, 1851 married Annie May at Windsor.

Occupation(s) - if any
Draper’s assistant, Upholsterer, proprietor of the Baker Street Bazaar, 68 Baker Street.
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses
you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
Bury St Edmunds Suffolk 1816 – abt 1833 when he deserted his wife Elizabeth.
TC moved to London by 1833
1841 ‘ lodging at Lodge Road, District of Marylebone
1851- residence with Annie May – 2 Richmond Green, Richmond
1861- residence at 58 Finchley Road, St John's Wood

Date, place of death
26 December, 1864 at Holcombe House, Hendon London
Cause of death –
abscess, gangrene resulting from fistula
Date and place of burial.
Burial at Highgate Cemetery on 31 December, 1864
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Probate granted 10 February 1865.
Memorial inscription - if any N/K
__________________
*MY TIME AND DATE
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-12-12, 17:06
kiterunner's Avatar
kiterunner kiterunner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 25,271
Default

I take it that there is no father's name on his marriage certificate?
__________________
KiteRunner

Family History News updated 29th Feb
Findmypast 1871 census update
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-12-12, 03:29
Sunny Kate Sunny Kate is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sunny SE Queensland
Posts: 100
Default

Kite there was no indication of TC's parents on any documents either from his first marriage to my 3x ggg mother Elizabeth in 1816 or his later marriage to Annie in 1851. I've not seen the MC of 1851 but a Druce descendant of that marriage said the information is not given.
The entry in the Suffolk- Sudbury Marriage Licences in 1816 is the first time he appears on any record.
__________________
*MY TIME AND DATE
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-12-12, 10:40
tenterfieldjulie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Kate I've got to tell you that we are probably sort of related ...
My Bil is a descendant too lol ... I'm sure that I've got material he sent me somewhere....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-12-12, 12:48
Shona's Avatar
Shona Shona is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oop nerth and darn sarf
Posts: 3,026
Default

Kate, thank you for providing me with an entertaining morning reading about all the court cases.

Ancestry have the following entries in the Freedom of the City of London Admission Papers collection.

- Charles Crickmer Druce, admitted 1857, father Thomas Charles Druce.

- Thomas Druce, born 1798, admitted 1821, father Charles Druce.

- John Druce, born 1799, admitted 1835, father Charles Druce.

There are two births in London for Thomas Druce at about the right time with Charles as the father.

Thomas Druce, baptised 25 October 1796 to Charles and Mary Druce.
Thomas Druce, born 20 November 1798 and baptised on 8 January 1799 to Charles and Mary.

The problem with all this is that Thomas was born in London, not Oxfordshire.

Lots of trees and photos on Ancestry as well.

Last edited by Shona; 03-12-12 at 19:26.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-12-12, 18:03
Shona's Avatar
Shona Shona is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oop nerth and darn sarf
Posts: 3,026
Default

I've got rather hooked on the Druce family and the case of Thomas Charles Druce being the Duke. But the more I read, the more I wonder whether Thomas Druce who married Elizabeth Crickmer is a different person from the Thomas Charles Druce who married Annie May.

There are certainly a lot of Druces in the 1843 Post Office directory for London:

Druce & Co, furniture department, Bazaar, 4 King Street, Portman Square
Druce & Brock, upholsterers etc, 200 Regent Street
Druce, Charles & sons, Attorneys, 10 Billiter Square
Druce Thos & Co, Hanstown Brewery, Low. St George St, Chelsea
Druce, Thos & Wm, timber and coal mers, Paradise Row, Chelsea
Druce, John, butcher, 13 Skinner St, Sommerstown
Druce, Joseph, butcher, 6 Pitfield St, Hoxton
Druce, Thomas, butcher, 20 Weymouth St, Portland Place
Druce Thomas jn, butcher, 33 Pitfield St, Hoxton
Druce, Wm sen, Feathers PH, 25 Wellington Terr, Waterloo Road
Druce Wm, jn, Rose & Crown, 15 Crown Street, Soho

Thomas Charles Druce, the brewer, died in 1860, leaving about £1,500. His address at the time was Warwick Street.

Looking at the electoral rolls for London for Thomas Druce, we get the following:
1844 200 Regent Street, house
1847 200 Regent Street, house
1850 Upper Baker Street, Portman Square, workshops
1851 20 Royal Avenue, Chelsea, Hanstown brewery and two houses adjoining
1851 Upper Baker Street, Portman Square, workshops
1852 20 Royal Avenue, Chelsea, Hanstown brewery and two houses adjoining
1853 As 1852
1858 128 Warwick Street, house
1858 58 Baker Street Portman Square, workshops

Last edited by Shona; 03-12-12 at 19:27.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-12-12, 19:22
kiterunner's Avatar
kiterunner kiterunner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 25,271
Default

Kate, is your 2xg-grandparent a child of Elizabeth Crickmer or of Annie May?
__________________
KiteRunner

Family History News updated 29th Feb
Findmypast 1871 census update
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-12-12, 19:48
Shona's Avatar
Shona Shona is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oop nerth and darn sarf
Posts: 3,026
Default

Thomas Druce and Elizabeth Crickmer (married 1816) had the following children - all born in Suffolk.
- Henry Thomas Druce, born 1817
- Charles Crickmer Druce, born 1818
- George Druce, born 1819
- Frances Elizabeth Druce, born 1821
- William Druce, born 1827

Thomas Charles Druce and Annie May (married 1851) had the following children - all born in London:
- Albert/Herbert? Druce, born 1846
- Sidney Charles Druce, born 1848
- Florence Maria Druce, born 1850
- Walter Thomas Druce, born 1852
- Bertha Marion Druce, born 1854
- Louis Alfred Druce, born 1853

If this is the one person, where was he between 1827 when he was in Suffolk and the 1840s when he appears in London?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-12-12, 20:18
kiterunner's Avatar
kiterunner kiterunner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 25,271
Default

Frances Elizabeth's marriage cert:
ancestry

Her father is named as Thomas Charles Druce, upholsterer.
__________________
KiteRunner

Family History News updated 29th Feb
Findmypast 1871 census update
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-12-12, 20:20
Shona's Avatar
Shona Shona is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oop nerth and darn sarf
Posts: 3,026
Default

Reading about the famous court case where it was claimed that Thomas Charles Druce was the Duke, I saw this statement by Thomas's son, Herbert:

'I have not been able to find any account of the beginning of the business. I did not know of my own knowledge when it was started nor with whose money. I cannot recollect having seen the certificate of my birth. I have never searched nor know of any search being made. I have not seen a certificate of my baptism, nor searched for one, nor authorised a search to be made. I never saw a family Bible which recorded my birth. The first 50 years (about) of my father's life were a blank to me. I do not recollect being visited at Finchley Road by any relatives of my father's or mother's. I do not recollect my grandfathers or grandmothers.'
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:15.


Hosted by Photon IT

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 PL3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.