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#41
11-10-12, 08:53
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#42
11-10-12, 09:43
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I'm definitely not enjoying this series as a whole as much as previous ones because there have been too many episodes that dwelt on one single aspect of someone's tree - but I do appreciate that there will be many people who enjoy doing that with their own family history and so will find it an interesting approach. It just isn't what I personally have come to expect and enjoy about WDYTYA.
I found Celia Imrie's episode probably the most boring ever....it even trumps Hugh Dennis's WW1 research for me. I switched both of them off before the end as I grew impatient with waiting for something interesting to crop up and I have never done that in anyt previous series. Last night I fell asleep just as they were beginning to talk about Frances Howard and woke up about 20 minutes later to find them still rabbitting on about her....so I switched off and went to bed. Having had to forego WDYTYA last week for a Panorama special I was looking forward to this. BIG disappointment.
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#43
11-10-12, 09:51
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Some things irked me about this episode.
William Lord Russell was fervently anti-Catholic. Historians may still debate his actual involvement in the Rye House Plot to assassinate Charles and James, but I didn't take to her comment that he was 'Christ-like' - some sort of martyr. WLR wasn't the only person to be put to death for involvement in the plot, after all. They mentioned the seven Englishmen (the Immortal Seven) who 'invited' William of Orange to depose the king, but failed to mention one of the seven was an ancestor on her grandfather's Lumley branch. The Glorious Revolution was not so glorious in Ireland and Scotland. It's worth listening to the Radio 4 documentary Things We Forgot to Remember (it's on the iplayer) about some of the uncomfortable truths about what happened. We had another baby 'ripped away from her mother' moment when Celia was commented on the Earl and Countess of Somerset's daughter, Anne. Even if they hadn't been in the Tower, Anne would have been given to a wet-nurse. Who was the sister who was looking after Anne while her parents were in the Tower? Mrs Turner was hung at Tyburn. Wish the show has mentioned that for completeness. The OH usually dutifully sits through the show and murmurs in agreement when I say: 'Ooh, that was interesting.' Not so this one. He's in full lecture mode - he studied this period in history...from the Irish and Catholic perspective. Don't get me wrong, I watched the show and was intruiged. It's John Bishop next week, isn't it?
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#44
11-10-12, 12:03
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#46
11-10-12, 13:10
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oh dear I have yet to watch it! It doesn't sound promising.
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#47
11-10-12, 13:32
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Going back to the Cators - the John Cator who died in 1806 (uncle of 3xg-grandfather Joseph Cator, according to Burke's Landed Gentry 1855) was born in 1728, the son of John Cator and Mary Brough, according to the History of Parliament Online. Wikipedia says that his estates were inherited by his nephew John Barwell Cator, and I don't seem to have kept a copy of his will after looking at it.
I think that Burke's got in a muddle and that Joseph Cator who died in 1818 was actually the brother of John Cator, not his nephew, and John Barwell Cator was Joseph's son. Apparently Joseph's tombstone says he was 84 when he died, which would fit with him being born in 1733, and John Cator was the eldest child of John sr and Mary, so could not have a nephew born in 1733. So... the Cator line back from Celia's grandfather is: Grandfather - Charles George Lumley Cator G-grandfather - Charles Oliver Frederick Cator b 1836 2xg-g - Thomas Cator b 1790 3xg-g - Joseph Cator b 1733 4xg-g - John Cator b 1703 5xg-g - Jonah Cator b 1661 John Cator's brother Jonah born 1706 is my 7xg-grandfather and so the Jonah born 1661 is my 8xg-g. By my calculations, Celia is my sixth cousin three times removed! The generations in her Cator line are very far apart which makes it quite out of synch with mine.
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#48
11-10-12, 14:03
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It's a pity WDYTYA didn't engage you to put last night's programme together Kite. Your research is a lot more interesting than what we were given! I know it WAS Celia's family history but it wasn't family history research as we have come to define it through our own experiences was it?
I have to say, I'm very glad my lot weren't well documented in history books and the like because the finding of them wouldn't have been anything like the fun it has been! A distant relative I came into contact with once asked me if I had been trained in the police because of my tenacity in following up clues and not letting go until I had proved (or not) a connection! I haven't (been trained in the police) by the way 
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#49
11-10-12, 14:12
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Thanks, Ann!
I think it's funny that Celia's snobby grandfather was the great-grandson of a merchant - surely that counts as "trade"?
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#50
11-10-12, 14:17
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To provide a bit of balance, I took a look at Celia's father, Dr David Andrew Imrie (1892-1972) to examine the 'working class' side of her family.
David Imrie was educated at Glasgow and Edinburgh Universities and was registered on 11 August 1915. His address: 3 Nightingale Road, Guildford. David's parents were: John Imrie and Jane Kerr Pollock. 1901 census - 415 Shields Road, Pollock, Glasgow John Imrie, 53, steam ship agent, born Glasgow John Imrie, 23, analytical chemist Eliza Imrie, 19 James Imrie, 15 Janet Imrie, 16 David Imrie, 8 William Imrie, 6 John is a ship agent, one son is an analytical chemist and another goes on to be a doctor. I suppose this is working class (or 'trade') when compared to Celia's maternal line! [In addition to David Imrie, Medical Registers also have the following entry: James Imrie, 8 St John's Road, Pollock. Registered 29 April 1925. A relative perhaps?] I was interested to see that there was a public tree on Ancestry on the Imrie family. Lots of info on the maternal line, not so much on the paternal line. The tree owner? Someone called Celia. Hmmmm. John Imrie's parents were James Imrie and Margaret Mills who were married in Glasgow on 13 May 1838. On Family Search, the following children are listed for James Imrie and Margaret Mills: Grace, b 4 April 1839 James, b 15 August 1843 John, b 29 May 1846 Janet, b 13 September 1849 Matheu (?), b 22 December 1851 James, b 3 August 1854 1861 census - 97 Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow James Imrie, 47, cotton yarn warper Margaret Imrie, 48 John Imrie, 14, draper's message boy James Imrie, 6 A cotton yarn warper and a message boy? That's a bit more down to earth. Time to take a look at the Pollock branch. 1871 census - Vennel Street, Dalry, Ayrshire Robert Pollock, 54, builder and landowner, born Barshead, Renfrewshire Eliza Pollock, 55, born Dalry Jane Kerr Pollock, 23, born Dalry Agnes Taylor Pollock, 18, born Dalry Eliza Ann Pollock, 15, born Dalry Robert Pollock, 13, born Dalry Andrew Smith Pollock, 11, born Dalry Mary Taylor Pollock, 4, born Dalry James Kerr, 89, retired farmer, born Dalry Robert Pollock is recorded in the 1851 census as being a master mason who employs 13men. Also in the same census in Dalry, James Pollock is listed as being a master mason employing 13 men. Monumental inscriptions, Dalry 'Erected in memory of Robert Pollock, late builder, London, who died in Dalry, 14th May 1876, aged 81 years. Janed, eldest daughter of the late John Pollock, builder, Dalry, died 28 February 1871, aged 47 years' I think London in this transcription is wrong. It's more likely to be Loudon. Looks as if the Pollock family were fairly well-established builders. Most of the Pollock children moved to Glasgow. 1881 census - Pollock Street, Glasgow John Pollock, head, 31, mechanic in saw mill, born Dalry, Ayrshire Agnes T Pollock, sister, 28, born Dalry Eliza Ann Pollock, sister, 25, born Dalry Robert Pollock, 23, brother, joiner at works, born Dalry Andrew Pollock, 21, brother, clerk, born Dalry Mary Pollock, 19, sister, scholar, born Dalry Pollocks living in Pollock Street! Wonder if it was built by the family firm? Still haven't tracked down Jane Kerr Pollock in 1881. She would have been married to John Imrie by then. Last edited by Shona; 11-10-12 at 15:01.
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