Eliza EMMS - MFFM

[Merry]

Yes, the death cert would give an age and an informant.

Here's the death of Eliza's second husband:

Deaths Mar 1869
Russell Joseph 38 Newent 6a 184

[Merry]

1881 census Worcestershire Staunton

Eliza Russell wid 58 b Glou Upleadon
Thomer Williams son unm 37 b Worc Colwell ?? (OK so different place to 1871, but his name is Williams now!!!)
Rose Dyer boarder 8 b Worcestershire somewhere-or-other!

[Sabrina]

That marriage certainly looks like his sister, doesn't it? Why can't I find her on the 1861 census?

I think that death looks promising too. I don't really want to buy another death certificate at the moment - have bought too many certs just recently. Would it give an age?

[Sabrina]

Oh Merry you are a genius! Well done.

So Margaret's surname is recorded under mother's new name, but Thomas must be her second husband's son.

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Sabrina

So Margaret's surname is recorded under mother's new name, but Thomas must be her second husband's son.

Good point, he cound be, but then why is he Williams in 1881?

[Merry]

Going to Upleaden, this is the nearest I can find at the mo....a brother for Eliza?

WILLIAM HEMS Pedigree
Male
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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 FEB 1818 Upleadon, Gloucester, England

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Parents:
Father: JOHN HEMS Family
Mother: ELIZABETH
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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

[Sabrina]

So, you think he might be an illegitimate son then?

Interesting that they use the Williams surname, isn't it?

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Sabrina

So, you think he might be an illegitimate son then?

Interesting that they use the Williams surname, isn't it?

Maybe he was called Williams whilst Eliza was married to William and it stuck? (except for when he was called Russell!!)

Thing is, we never know if the enumerator got his wires crossed when taking the info. It must have been easy to make an assumption about a surname and get it wrong.

Any ideas on what his birthplace actually is?

[Sabrina]

I have no idea about where William or Eliza were born. They have just arrived on the scene, so to speak!!

I am assuming that the Thomas Hembs witness on son William's marriage is the same as the Thomas you found with Eliza on the census.

Just looked on the Forest of Dean site and there is another child of John and Elizabeth HEMS baptised 18 Oct 1812 at Rudford, a Mary. But cannot see an Eliza at the moment.

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Sabrina

I have no idea about where William or Eliza were born. They have just arrived on the scene, so to speak!!

I am assuming that the Thomas Hembs witness on son William's marriage is the same as the Thomas you found with Eliza on the census.

Just looked on the Forest of Dean site and there is another child of John and Elizabeth HEMS baptised 18 Oct 1812 at Rudford, a Mary. But cannot see an Eliza at the moment.

Sorry, I meant Thomas - where is "Worc Colwell" which is what is seems to say in 1881 and I need to look again at the 1871 which was dreadful writing!

Yes, I'm sure you are right about Thomas Hembs on the marriage cert.