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  #11  
Old 13-03-11, 00:14
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Thanks for that push, KiteRunner. I decided to go through all my mother's effects again and found... her birth certificate! I seem to have some kind of original, which is partially readable, and a certified copy in good shape.

So I have moved on to her parents and am not sure what I did was right. I'm humbly hoping you or some other patient soul will help straighten me out.

I had worked through yorkshirebmd.info and found a listing I believe to be my mother's mother, Elizabeth Spence, in Kirkstall. (She was from nearby Headingley. There is another Elizabeth Spence born in Leeds North in 1875, but that seems less likely to me.) I pressed the button and printed out a form to submit by post to Superintendent Registrar, Leeds Register Office, Leeds Town Hall, The Headrow, Leeds, LS1 3AD. Then I remembered that I had come across a GRO website where the certificate could be ordered online, and I went and filled out an order online instead (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/).

My big question is, in taking the reference number from the form created by yorkshirebmd and placing it in my order to the GRO, did I make a mistake? I entered Kirkstall vol. 51 page 455. I'm afraid I may be mixing up the reference numbers between the local registry office and the GRO.

This leaves aside my mother's father, which is what I had set out to pursue. And here I have the flip side of the question on the reference numbers. I could not find him on yorkshirebmd but I do find him on freebmd.org.uk, and that gives me Walter Berry's birth registered in Keighley district, vol. 9a, page 197, which I confirmed by looking directly at the scan. Now, is that a reference that I could/should have entered online to request his birth cert?

The same site gives me "Leeds 9b 562" for my mother's mother, instead of Kirkstall 51 455. Perhaps that is what I should have entered in my online request. (I should have asked questions first, before I pressed "send", eh?)

Sorry to sound so confused. I am!!!

Eternally grateful for any and all help,
Janet
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  #12  
Old 13-03-11, 06:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet View Post
Thanks for that push, KiteRunner. I decided to go through all my mother's effects again and found... her birth certificate! I seem to have some kind of original, which is partially readable, and a certified copy in good shape.

So I have moved on to her parents and am not sure what I did was right. I'm humbly hoping you or some other patient soul will help straighten me out.

I had worked through yorkshirebmd.info and found a listing I believe to be my mother's mother, Elizabeth Spence, in Kirkstall. (She was from nearby Headingley. There is another Elizabeth Spence born in Leeds North in 1875, but that seems less likely to me.) I pressed the button and printed out a form to submit by post to Superintendent Registrar, Leeds Register Office, Leeds Town Hall, The Headrow, Leeds, LS1 3AD. Then I remembered that I had come across a GRO website where the certificate could be ordered online, and I went and filled out an order online instead (http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/).

My big question is, in taking the reference number from the form created by yorkshirebmd and placing it in my order to the GRO, did I make a mistake? I entered Kirkstall vol. 51 page 455. I'm afraid I may be mixing up the reference numbers between the local registry office and the GRO.

This leaves aside my mother's father, which is what I had set out to pursue. And here I have the flip side of the question on the reference numbers. I could not find him on yorkshirebmd but I do find him on freebmd.org.uk, and that gives me Walter Berry's birth registered in Keighley district, vol. 9a, page 197, which I confirmed by looking directly at the scan. Now, is that a reference that I could/should have entered online to request his birth cert?

The same site gives me "Leeds 9b 562" for my mother's mother, instead of Kirkstall 51 455. Perhaps that is what I should have entered in my online request. (I should have asked questions first, before I pressed "send", eh?)

Sorry to sound so confused. I am!!!

Eternally grateful for any and all help,
Janet
The GRO references and the local office ones are different. They don't use the same system. The Leeds one is the correct one for ordering online for your mother's cert.
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  #13  
Old 13-03-11, 10:05
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Yes, as Marg says, the local register office and GRO office use different references and you need the GRO refs to order from the GRO.

BUT - I would say your main problem is that your next step should be to order your grandparents' marriage certificate, rather than their birth certificates - unless you already have a copy of their marriage cert?
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  #14  
Old 13-03-11, 15:05
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I do appreciate your help, both of you.

Yes, I had just learned about the two different systems but wound up crisscrossing the numbers until you set me right, Marg. I don't know if it will do me any good, but I've sent a "complaint" email on the heels of my birth certificate request, explaining that I am not complaining and giving them the correct GRO reference number.

I've also now sent for my grandparents' marriage certificate, as well as my grandfather's birth certificate. KiteRunner, may I ask what is the advantage of having the marriage certificate first, even before the birth certificates?

thanks very much for your time,
Janet
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  #15  
Old 13-03-11, 15:31
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The marriage certificate will give you their fathers' names and occupations. I would think you are certain to get the right birth certificate for Walter anyway because of his middle name, but if you had Elizabeth's father's name before ordering her birth certificate, then it might be easier to make sure you order the right birth certificate because we should be able to find her family on the censuses, and the family of the "other" Elizabeth, and hopefully work out from the census info which is the right birth registration.

Fingers crossed the birth cert you've ordered turns out to be the right one anyway!
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  #16  
Old 13-03-11, 16:06
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Thanks!
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  #17  
Old 13-03-11, 17:08
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I suppose the other question is how you will know whether it is the right birth certificate when it arrives, if you don't have her father's name from her marriage certificate? Or do you have some other information already, such as her exact date of birth?
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  #18  
Old 13-03-11, 17:44
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Oh, I see that Elizabeth ("Lily") has a sister Ethel May Spence who is with the Berry family, age 42, on the 1920 US census, and there is an Ethel May Spence birth registration in 1877 in Kirkstall, so it looks as though you should have found the right birth registration for Elizabeth. There is a likely family on the 1881 England census with parents George and Elizabeth and children including Elizabeth 6 and Ethel May 3, and their birthplace is given as Headingley.
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  #19  
Old 13-03-11, 20:19
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Yes, actually I know a lot. (Some of it is in my thread about "MMMMM unknown but I have up to MMMM in Yorkshire" that you kindly helped me with.) But I thought your advice to start from the more recent past and work backwards carefully one step at a time was on target. So I'm moving from what I know I know to what I think I know, which are not always one and the same!

You're quite right about Elizabeth (Lily) and Ethel May on the 1920 US census and the 1881 UK census. I had not thought to look for Ethel's birth registration, so I'm glad you did and found a match on the Kirkstall. I will sleep better now until Lily's birth cert arrives! And no, I don't have her exact date of birth although it may be 3 February 1875 because I have a little portrait photo of her in a fancy hat with her hair all done and looking proud that is inscribed on the back "Feb. 3rd 1896" so I'm guessing that would have been for her 21st...? We'll find out!

thanks again so much,
Janet
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  #20  
Old 23-03-11, 03:54
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Lily's birth certificate (yes! the right one) has arrived and does confirm that her DOB was 3 Feb. 1875, so her photo was indeed taken on her 21st. Awaiting arrival of the other two cert's. Thanks again to Marg and to you, KiteRunner, for all your unstinting help.
Lily Berry 3 February 1896:
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File Type: jpg Lily 21st - 3 Feb 1896 small.jpg (18.3 KB, 8 views)
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