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  #21  
Old 22-08-14, 13:31
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Ann from Sussex Ann from Sussex is offline
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Interesting programme from a research point of view and I thought Tamzin came across as a very nice person....BUT.....

I got very cross over her attitude to internment (and I do find it hard to believe she didn't know that Italy was at war with us in 1940 - was that a bit of "dramatic effect?). She seemed to imply it was wrong to imprison people who were nationals of the countries we were at war with. What on earth did she expect? We were in very real danger of being invaded at that time so couldn't take any risks.It happened to German and Austrian refugees from the Nazis too until they were able and willing to prove their loyalty to Britain. I just felt the whole section about internment in a "concentration camp" was another example of looking at the past and judging it by today's mores and standards. OK, I know it WAS, strictly speaking, a concentration camp but the term has come to signify something very different in relation to WW2 and I think it was deliberately used for emotive effect here. At least the inmates were given the chance to get out ... which is more than can be said for most of those in the other side's camps.
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  #22  
Old 22-08-14, 13:55
crawfie crawfie is offline
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I get a bit annoyed at all the assumptions they make - Peter not wanting to leave his father alone in the camp, as he wanted to protect him from the fascists? Peter was only 19 at the time, and the father was only in his early 40's so quite possibly able to stand up for himself. Did Peter later on join the volunteers - I was a bit hazy on that.
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  #23  
Old 22-08-14, 14:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crawfie View Post
I get a bit annoyed at all the assumptions they make - Peter not wanting to leave his father alone in the camp, as he wanted to protect him from the fascists? Peter was only 19 at the time, and the father was only in his early 40's so quite possibly able to stand up for himself. Did Peter later on join the volunteers - I was a bit hazy on that.
Nothing more was said about that.

Did anyone else get the impression that Tamzin knew her great grandparents and great uncle? She talked about visiting Fishburn often,she remembered the shop and they died in 1978 and 1980 respectively. Tamzin was born in 1970 so I'm sure she would have known them but maybe hadn't realised what happened to them in the war. Someone did say they didn't talk about it and, even if they had, a child of her age wouldn't have understood what it all meant. I still don't buy her shock at hearing that Italy and Italians were "the enemy" though!
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  #24  
Old 22-08-14, 14:59
Olde Crone Olde Crone is offline
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Ann

I agree - they were not concentration camps, they were internment camps, very different kettle of fish.

I can quite understand that people might not wish to fight their own countrymen, no matter how long they themselves had been exiled....but the price of that stance was very clear. And how on earth can any of us know whether or not Peter (at least) had Fascist sympathies? No one wants to think their relative was a Fascist....but the Fascists must have belonged to someone's family!

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  #25  
Old 22-08-14, 14:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann from Sussex View Post
Did anyone else get the impression that Tamzin knew her great grandparents and great uncle?
At first, I thought it was all new to her, but as the story developed, it became clear to me that she must have known her great-grandfather and great-uncle - and quite a lot about her Italian heritage. She talked about holidays in Barga as well as visiting relatives in Fishburn.

I got frustrated by the historian recounting the information about the internment camps on the Isle of Man - soooooo many assumptions were made. We haven't a clue about the Santi family's political sympathies. About a third of Italians in the UK were members of the fascist party.

Adelmo/Arthur was released on 8 May 1941 while Peter was released on 4 June 1941 as a 'special case' (according to the papers in the National Archives image library). I noted that, while he said that his normal occupation was ice-cream vendor, he was employed as a canteen attendant at Fishburn Colliery

Last edited by Shona; 22-08-14 at 16:04.
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  #26  
Old 22-08-14, 15:19
JBee JBee is offline
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It irritated me that she knew so much beforehand so wondered why they didn't research what she didn't know ie her ancestors in Italy or was there so little there of interest.
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  #27  
Old 22-08-14, 16:45
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Originally Posted by JBee View Post
It irritated me that she knew so much beforehand so wondered why they didn't research what she didn't know ie her ancestors in Italy or was there so little there of interest.
I suspect the criteria for making the programme is not whether the person does or doesn't know but would it make an interesting programme for the viewers.
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  #28  
Old 22-08-14, 17:57
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Maybe if Tamzin had paid more attention to the first episode of "New Tricks" that she appeared in as Sasha Miller, she would have known more about Italy's role in WW2, and not said, "Were they, like, the enemy?":
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3183596/...?ref_=tt_ov_pl
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  #29  
Old 22-08-14, 18:45
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I was left a bit confused by Adelmo and when he decided to stay in this country.

He originally came in 1913, but their eldest son was born in Italy in the early 1920s?

When did he go back to Italy? Did he go back when he was called up? Did he go back after the war? Did he meet and marry Maria in Glasgow, or back in Italy?
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  #30  
Old 22-08-14, 18:54
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Oh, and another point. Can't remember what show it was on; perhaps it was The One Show or The Bake Off, but there was a bit about ice cream and the Penny Lick.

That seemed to suggest that Penny Licks were banned in the late 1800s as they were spreading diseases which lead to the invention of the ice cream cone as we know it.
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