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Old 17-12-10, 09:15
Olde Crone Olde Crone is online now
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Default Isabella Chalmers MMFFM ahnentafel 57.

Updated with new information in greenAlmost a complete mystery. Never seen anywhere except on son's marriage cert.


Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Isabella Chalmers (or maybe Chambers)
Chalmers is incorrect - her maiden name is ELDER

Date and place of birth
Not known but before 1822, as first (?) child born 1834Aberdeen
About 1816, Grange, Banffshire.

Names of parents
Not known
(From her death certificate, so may not be accurate) John Elder and Isabella Skinner.

Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Not known
Not found

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
16 December 1848, Grange, Banff, after banns, John Simpson


Occupation(s) - if any
Not known

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
1832 Gives birth to son Alexander Bonnyman in Keith, Banff
1840 Gives birth to son William Brown in Grange, Banff
1843 Gives birth to son John Elder or Simpson
1845 Gives birth to Isobel Simpson
1848 Marries John Simpson
1849 Gives birth to George Simpson
1853 Gives birth to James simpson
1854 Gives birth to Margaret Simpson
Spends remainder of life in Grange, Banff, as far as I can tell.


Date, place and cause of death
17 May 1899 Balnamoonhill, Grange, Banff, heart disease, bronchitis, aged 83

Date and place of burial
17 May 1892 (incorrect transcription) Grange Kirkyard

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Not known

Memorial inscription - if any
Isabella Elder, the wife of John Simpson, the mother of William Brown, the parents of Margaret Simpson, aged 83. Headstone ref G279

On the marriage certificate of her son Alexander Bonnyman in 1868 she is described as "Isabella Simpson nee Chalmers". In 1861, Alexander was lodging with a CHAMBERS family in Aberdeen - Chalmers mistranscribed or vice versa?EDIT - It now seems that Chalmers was a mistake and that Alexander assumed that was his mother's maiden name, as Walter Chalmers his uncle brought him up.

(Note to self: There are Valuation Rolls for Balnamoon from the late 1860 to early 1900s.)

Last edited by Olde Crone; 31-12-10 at 09:34. Reason: Further information
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Old 20-12-10, 09:11
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Have you got a birth / baptism record for her son? And have you found the son on the 1841 and / or 1851 censuses?
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Old 27-12-10, 13:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olde Crone View Post
On the marriage certificate of her son Alexander Bonnyman in 1868 she is described as "Isabella Simpson nee Chalmers". In 1861, Alexander was lodging with a CHAMBERS family in Aberdeen - Chalmers mistranscribed or vice versa?
Walter "Chambers" and family are transcribed as Chalmers in 1851, and Alexander's with them, transcribed as Alexander Romyman, nephew

Last edited by Mary from Italy; 27-12-10 at 13:08.
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Old 27-12-10, 13:19
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Walter and Elizabeth are together in 1851, and the oldest child is 9. The only likely candidate for Walter in 1841 appears to be a single man. There are 3 marriages for a Walter Chalmers between 1841 and 1851, but none of them is to a Bonnyman or a Simpson.
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Old 27-12-10, 13:50
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The 1881 census gives Walter's spouse's name as Elizabeth Cowie, but I can't find a marriage for those names, or a Cowie/Bonneyman/Simpson marriage.
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Old 27-12-10, 16:17
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Gosh, had almost forgotten about this!

Kate - no, I don't have a baptism for son Alexander Bonnyman, born about 1834-6, Aberdeen.

Mary

Are you thinking that Elizabeth, wife of Walter is really Isabella?

I think I must have picked up the wrong family in 1851 then, as I have Alexander Bonnyman aged 17, a servant with the Milne family in Banff. I felt this was him because Alexander names HIS son, James Milne Bonnyman, and although there is a previous Milne link, it isn't with this particular branch. (1851 -128/0A 006/00 005 Higher Ardoch Banff - head of household William Milne 35 born Keith.

When Alexander Bonnyman dies, his death cert states him to be illegitimate and there is a RCE to this effect, although giving his reputed father's name.

That Cowie surname is vaguely familiar but I don't know how...I will look at my tree to see if it is a discard!

Thankyou both.

OC
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Old 27-12-10, 18:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olde Crone View Post
Are you thinking that Elizabeth, wife of Walter is really Isabella?
That was only a passing thought; I also wondered if she might be his wife Elizabeth's sister, so I tried all sorts of permutations just in case. However, as the marriage cert calls her née Chalmers, and Alexander's said to be Walter's nephew in 1851, I thought Isabella was most likely to be Walter's sister. Might be worth looking for Walter's birth on SP. He came from Keith, Banff (like William Milne) according to all but one census if I remember rightly.

I did see an Alexander Bonnyman with the Milne family in 1841, and wondered if he might be yours. However, his birthplace is given as Banff in 1841 and 1851, whereas the Alex living with the Chalmers family in 1851 and 1861 was born in Aberdeen. There's an Isabel Bonnyman, also 10, in the same household wth the Milnes in 1841, and they're both servants (FS = farm servant, I assume). James Milnes jr, presumaby the son of James sr., is also shown as an FS, so I wondered if the Bonnyman children were actually grandchildren of the Milnes (the Scottish 1841, like the English one, doesn't seem to show relationships).

Who was the reputed father? John Bonnyman?

Where is Alex in 1871? If he's the one married to Christina, his occupation (hemp dresser) matches the Alex with the Chalmers family in 1851 and 1861. There's another Alex Bonnyman born in Bellie (partly in Banffshire and partly in Elginshire, apparently), with a wife Anna, who might be the one who was living in Bellie with the Milne family in 1841, but he's 8 years older.

Last edited by Mary from Italy; 27-12-10 at 18:37.
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Old 27-12-10, 19:21
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I'm sure you are right that the one with Walter in 1851 is "mine" as I think the occupation clinches it - Alexander is always a flax/hemp worker. But the other one with the Milne family, I am sure must be related.

My Alexander in 1891 says he was born in Keith (where William Milne was born). There are so many conflicitng facts between this 1891 Alexander and the 1881 Alexander that I would have thought they were two different people, except that the address is the same both times, 6 Farquahar Court, St Nicholas, Aberdeen.

Alex did indeed marry Christina McCaskill. He states his father is John Bonnyman on his marriage cert and that his mother is Isabella Chalmers Simpson. On his death cert, she is Isabella Bonnyman. This has been corrected by an RCE to read " illegitimate -reputed father John Bonnyman. Mother Isabella Chalmers later the wife of unknown Simpson". Alex's daughter was informant at his death, RCE made by the Procurator Fiscal.

Alex's son James Milne Bonnyman married Annie Reid Urquhart, who is the grandaughter of Alexander Milne, a farmer/quarrier of Old Machar. So there is a Milne connection for both sides.

A John Bonnyman married a Margaret Falconer (I originally thought these were my 3 x GGPs). They had a son Alexander Bonnyman bapt. 13 August 1840, Old Machar - how very very confusing, especially as they also had a James Smith Bonnyman, and this James Smith name appears as the middle name of one of my mother's brothers!

OC
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Old 27-12-10, 19:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olde Crone View Post
I'm sure you are right that the one with Walter in 1851 is "mine" as I think the occupation clinches it - Alexander is always a flax/hemp worker. But the other one with the Milne family, I am sure must be related.
In case you don't have access to Ancestry, his occupation is transcribed as "hax hackiler" in 1851, but I assume that means flax something-or-other.
In 1861 he's a flax dresser.
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Old 27-12-10, 19:37
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Is "Simpson" clearly written on the cert?

Bit of a long shot, but I noticed an Isabel Bonnyman marrying a James Gordon in Banff in 1834.
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