John Saunders (Week 3 - FFFMF)

[Merry]

To save anyone having to read this back....

John Saunders and his wife Ann seem to have had at least three children baptised in Bristol:

George Augustus bap 23rd Sep 1827 at St Philip & St Jacob, age 1 month, parents John and Ann Saunders. Abode St Philip, father's occupation Coal Merchant

Mary bap 8th Feb 1829 at St. Phillip and St. Jacob, parents John and Ann Saunders. Abode St Phillip, father's occupation Brewer.

Elizabeth bap 05 Dec 1830 at St Augustine-the-Less, Bristol, parents John and Ann Saunders. Abode Anchor Lane, father's occupation Servant.

I have never found the parents, John and Ann after these baptisms for their children. I have traced the daughters Elizabeth and Mary forward, but no clues about John and Ann were forthcoming. I had presumed George Augustus had died, possibly before civil registration, but now I'm not so sure....

I thought I was just going to eliminate this George below, but it's not happening so far! I'm putting what I've found in chronological order, but that's not the order I found the info...

1841 Census - (possible entry) Brompton Barracks, Gillingham, Medway, Kent:

George Saunders 15 soldier not born in county

1851 Census - Royal Artillery Barracks, Woolwich, Kent:

George Saunders Private unm 24 Private Royal Marines b St Philips & Jacob, Gloucestershire

Marriage Entry - St Dunstan Stepney 9 Jun 1851 banns

George Saunders, full age, bachelor, Private Royal Marines, residence Stepney, father John Saunders sugar refiner
Martha Norton, full age, spinster, residence Stepney, father John Norton inspector of pavements
witnesses Henry Caton and Hannah White. Everyone signed.

1861 Census - 21 Lower Wood St, Woolwich, Kent

George Sanders head married 35 labourer b Bristol
Martha Sanders wife married 28 b Camberwell
Martha Sanders dau 5 b Woolwich, Kent
George Sanders son 2 b Woolwich, Kent

1871 Census - 4 Days Alley, Chatham, Kent

George (middle initial ?, but it isn't an A!) Saunders head married 45 smith dockyard b Somerset, Bristol
Martha Saunders wife married 37 b Surrey, Camberwell
Martha Saunders dau 15 scholar b Kent, Woolwich
George Saunders son 12 ditto
Charles Saunders son 8 ditto
James Saunders son 4 ditto
Ann Saunders dau 1 b Kent, Chatham

The children all have mmn Norton.

I'm not sure what happens next. There are some possible matches for some of the sons in S Wales in later censuses, but at the moment I'm more interested in whether John Saunders sugar refiner is yet another incarnation for my tricky 3xg-grandfather, and if this is him, does it help at all?!!

[Merry]

Royal Marines records seem to be at TNA, but I couldn't find anything to fit this George.

[Merry]

Martha's father was dec'd when she married in 1851, but this isn't recorded at the marriage.

[kiterunner]

I don't think George on the 1871 census has a middle initial; I think it's just a strange way the enumerator has of writing the final e.

Have you looked at this website?
http://www.mawer.clara.net/intro.html

[Merry]

Yes, I see what you mean about the middle initial.

No, I hadn't seen that site. Looks very interesting.

[Merry]

The eldest dau, Martha, married Henry Huggins in 1875 in Bedminster. Looks like either her mother and brother or both her parents were witnesses. If it's both the parents then I wonder if these are their deaths? (both in the same Q and only one Q before Martha jr's husband died)

Deaths Jun 1877
SAUNDERS George 51 Bedminster 5c 506
SAUNDERS Martha 43 Bedminster 5c 502

[Merry]

Bother, found the burials for the above and hoped their addresses would help prove they were a couple. However, she has Bedminster Union Hospital and he has 9 Devonport St, so no help a all! They were buried 2 1/2 weeks apart.

Martha Saunders abt 1834 25 May 1877 Bedminster, St John
George Saunders abt 1826 11 Jun 1877 Bedminster, St John

I can't see a burial for Martha jr's husband, Henry Huggins.

By 1881 Martha jr seems to be living with 60 year-old Thomas Lester. I know it's her, despite having added a few years to her age, because they have her daughter Martha Mary Huggins, 6, living with them at 34 Twinnell Road, Bristol. I can't see a marriage. Don't know what happens after this.

[Merry]

Ah, spelled wrong:

Henry Higgins abt 1856 5 Jul 1877 Bedminster, St John.

Address, Hereford St, Bristol

Hmmm, here's the bap for their daughter - different address though only a very short time later - no mention of the father being dec'd and now he and Martha senr both have a middle name and now I realise Henry was Henry William at his birth reg but not at the wedding.

Martha Mary Huggins bap 20 Jul 1877 Bedminster, St John, Bristol Henry William, Martha Mary - address Paul St, occ shoe maker.

So, now I'm wondering about the 1877 burial. That Henry is the right age and right area, but is he the right Henry? There's no other obvious one to fit.

[Merry]

Trying to eliminate marriages/burials for John Saunders and his wife Ann.

To save reading back, I believe these are their children:

George Augustus Saunders born Aug 1827 bap Sept 1827 St Philip and Jacob, Bristol, father Coal Merchant

Mary Ann Saunders bap Feb 1829 ditto, father Brewer

Elizabeth Saunders bap Dec 1830 St Augustine the Less, Bristol, father Servant

All other children with parents John and Ann Saunders/Sanders born around the same time and area have been eliminated.

When son George married in 1851 he said Sugar Refiner for his father, so plenty of different occupations, none of whch help!!

There's this marriage:

John Saunders to Ann Stevens (spinster, signed Stephens), St Thomas Bristol 18 Jun 1826. John (bachelor) is a corn factor. They both signed and the witnesses are James Jones and Elizabeth (Something)field.

Can anyone read that witness name?

There are Saunders/Stephens/Stevens births after 1837 but they belong to John Saunders and Mary Stevens who married in 1831.

I keep also looking at these burials:

Ann Saunders b abt 1798 18 Sep 1831 Dyrham, St Peter - abode Wick

John Saunders b abt 1798 7 Apr 1833 Dyrham, St Peter - abode Bristol

Obviously they may be nothing to do with each other and/or, nothing to do with me.

Wick is probably Wick and Abson which is within a mile ot two of Dyrham and also very close to a place called Doynton where dau Mary Ann married in 1850. She then lived in both Doynton and Wick and Abson.

In 1841 the two daughters were living in the house of a school teacher in Mangotsfield and the son was in the army, so not really much help.

Any ideas?!

[Merry]

Oooh, oooh.... I don't know where this is going...

John and Ann's daughter Mary Ann, married Walter Sparrow.

Walter Sparrow's parents were Thomas Sparrow and Rachel Stevens. On their marriage entry in Dyrham in 1818 Rachel's name is written Stevens, but she has signed Stephens just like Ann did eight years later (different church though!. Just wondering if Mary Ann married a cousin?