View Full Version : Charlotte Elizabeth McCloud

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 20:15
EDIT - further info required, please go to post #64.

Where the thump is she in 1901 and/or 1911?

She was born Dec 1897 in Aston Birmingham, but can I find her, no I can't! She is not the one with parents Albert and Florence, as I can identify that one later on as Charlotte May McCloud.

Please don't spend any credits on 1911, but would appreciate a push in the right direction - she may have been in a Home or other Institution.

This is for a friend, whose mother (still alive, I'm posting with her permission) suspects that Charlotte Elizabeth never married her father even though her parents SAID they married at Marylebone RO in 1933.

Any help much appreciated, thankyou.


22-09-09, 20:26
I hate to say this, but:

Births Dec 1897
McCloud Charlotte Elizabeth Aston 6d 328

Deaths Mar 1899
MCCLOUD Charlotte Elizabeth 1 Aston 6d 214

22-09-09, 20:40
Can we know who she is supposed to have married in 1933, or is that too much info?!

22-09-09, 20:46
Has your friend's mum got her own full birth cert?

22-09-09, 20:59
*looks forward to some bread, cheese and chutney* :D

22-09-09, 21:07
I shall follow this one with great interest.

*wonders if Merry has enough bread cheese and chutney for everyone

22-09-09, 21:07
*fetches plates and a few bottles of red to keep us going!*

(OC is making the chutney on General at the moment:rolleyes:)

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 21:19

Oh noooooooo.........I don't believe this...............

Charlotte McCloud was a big mystery. She went into a children's home at a very young age when her parents died - an aunt took two older children but not Charlotte.

When Charlotte was, (she thought), 55, she was contacted by the Pensions Service, who said she was 60 and here is your pension. She argued with them but eventually conceded that she must have "lost" a few years of her life when she was in the Home.

She died in 1995 at the age of 98. The birth date on her death cert is 7th December 1897...but it was her daughter who registered the death, so that information is received, not set in stone of course.

Charlotte Elizabeth "married" William Alfred Brown (born 1901) in 1933 at Marylebone Register Office...she said. I cannot find a marriage for them and I have looked as far forward as I can go on Freebmd. (WAB died in 1959, I think).

Her daughter suspects, from things which happened in her childhood, that WAB was already married but I can't begin to face looking for a WAB marriage!

Here's another odd thing about Charlotte's age. She had five children, eldest (still alive) born 1934, mmn McCloud, so that's ok. I CANNOT find the second child, a girl, born 35/36 (possibly still alive but not heard from for many years). Third child a boy, found mmn McCloid.

Fourth and fifth children were born towards the end of the war. Charlotte's two eldest daughters were evacuated for the duration and came home to a new brother and sister, brother a tiny baby, so born 1945/6...which would make Charlotte 49 if she really was born in 1897. I cannot find their registrations.

Friend's mum, a sensible sort, (so prepared for shocks, lol) thinks she may have other sibs sired by WAB, and would really like to know if her parents did ever marry - I suspect they didn't, but absence of proof is no proof at all in this game!

Phew - still with me?!

EDIT - Yes, friend's mum has her own full cert.


22-09-09, 21:24
And the chutney?

So, the forenames are Charlotte Elizabeth on the full cert?

Maybe she was b in Scotland - have you checked Scotlands People?

*tries not to mention Ireland*

22-09-09, 21:28
The birth date on her death cert is 7th December 1897

Erm, was it actually 6th Oct 1897 (died Truro?)

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 21:35
Yes, sorry, I thought my friend said the 6th!

She was certain that Charlotte Elizabeth was born "in Birmingham", before I found the birth reg. She was also adamant that Charlotte's middle name was Elizabeth, not May (there are two Charlotte May McClouds knocking around, both born a little later).

Now then I wonder....parents died, aunt took two sibs, Charlotte went into a Home and then both her sibs died....did dopey Aunt give incorrect information/certs to the Home? Maybe Charlotte Elizabeth who died aged 0, was the sib who died "as an infant".

In which case, we don't have a clue who Charlotte really was then....great. My friend will be thrilled, lol.


22-09-09, 21:38
Is it possible she somehow ended up with CE McCloud's birth cert, but that's not who she is?? *frets*

22-09-09, 21:41
Do you know what happened to the family of Charlotte May McCloud?

Would it be of any use to get the birth cert for Charlotte Elizabeth to see which family she came from in case the person you are looking for is another child from the same family, who you might be able to identify if you can work out what happened to the other siblings of CEM?

*looks for more bread and cheese*

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 21:44
That's what I meant, Merry!

My friend and I did discuss this ages ago and marvelled at how you could possibly think you were five years younger than you really were, especially if you were brought up in a Children's Home - they surely would have chucked you out the minute you were old enough to work???

Friend's mum is happy to throw money at this - she would like some answers before she dies, she says!

I think I will suggest she gets that death cert first (Charlotte aged 0) and see where that leads.

*Wipes chutney off board*


22-09-09, 21:46
The more I think about it, the more I'll bet this birth cert:

Births Dec 1897
McCloud Charlotte Elizabeth Aston 6d 328

has the 'right' date of birth on it and was a cert either bought by CEM or was given to her by the 'home' where she lived as a child because they believed this was her cert.

22-09-09, 21:49
I suppose it doesn't matter that she and Mr Brown were not married from the female line point of view, as had they married, the father from CEM's birth cert might well have turned up on the cert and no one would have noticed CEM died as a child and the tree wqould have tracked back nicely.

Might have been nice had they married to help with tracing Mr Brown's ancestry though.

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 21:50
Charlotte May appears to have married twice...I got a shock when I saw that and thought it was OUR Charlotte who was already married, not WAB.

But J (friend's mum) is adamant she was Charlotte Elizabeth, as she (J) was given Elizabeth as a second name after her.

Nobody in the family is called May!

There are two Charlottes in 1901, one is two months old and I suspect she is Charlotte May, born 1901. The other is Charlotte E. (? something)..born Sri Lanka and living nowhere near Birmingham..but the right age.....


22-09-09, 21:52
The other is Charlotte E. (? something)..born Sri Lanka and living nowhere near Birmingham..but the right age.....


Sri Lanka didn't exist in 1901 OC!! Where did you see this one?

22-09-09, 21:53
Sri Lanka didn't exist in 1901 OC!!

Oooh, I lied! I've just seen someone on the 1901 born in:

Sri Lanka, Essex


Olde Crone
22-09-09, 21:55
I'm glad you agree with me about that cert Merry - I do suspect it was some kind of mix-up in the Home.

Charlotte was apparently very bitter that the Aunt did not take her along with the other two, and especially after the two sibs died (when she presumably would have had room).

So there is still hope...if I look for McClouds in 1901 and see who is around and if I can kill'em off. Fortunately it's not THAT common a name.


22-09-09, 22:00
I can't find a marriage for the parents of Charlotte May McCloud. I've seen his birth (Albert George) in 1880. He doesn't seem to have died on FreeBMD, so I doubt he and Florence are the parents of the other Charlotte.

22-09-09, 22:06
I'm probably on a tangent here, but I thought I should check Albert George and Florence (Charlotte May MC's parents) were still around in 1911....

They are and surprisingly their dau Charlotte is only 5! They have a dau, Maud as well (she is five too, so perhaps the transcriber had been at the wine?).

Can we ignore these people as they are not dead??!

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 22:07
And of course, if Charlotte was in an Institution in 1911, I can't look for that, can I, as that is sensitive info I suppose!


22-09-09, 22:10
I've seen plenty of people in institutions in 1911, and I think you can also search by initials.

How about getting the birth or death cert for Charlotte in the hope we can prove your friend's grandmother is from the same family?

I can feel a sleep coming on!! I'm going to Ikea tomorrow, with a friend who never stops talking!!!

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 22:34
I'm working all day tomorrow so will post this. See what you think....

McCloud deaths - all Aston, for want of a different direction lol

Charlotte McCloud 1889 aged 50

Henry 1899 (38)

*Charles Frederick 1903 (3)

*John Albert 1904 (1)

*Gladys Frances 1905 (1)

*Annie 1907 (32)

*Charles 1913 (38)

Charles McCloud m Annie SMITH (lol) Dec 1894

In 1901 - Charles, Annie, Florence aged 5, Charles aged 1.


Friend's mum said Charlotte had a brother and a sister who died young. Friend's mum's brother said many years ago that there was another son who also died. So ...

Charles Frederick (on 1901 Charles) dies 1903
John Albert (the other son) dies 1904.
Gladys Frances dies 1905.

Leaving Florence alive, born about 1896, which is when the Pensions Dept said Charlotte Elizabeth was born!

No, that doesn't work because Annie didn't die until 1907, at which point Charlotte/Florence would have been 10 or so...you can't lose 5 years at age 10, surely?

Going to bed!


22-09-09, 22:35
now dont laugh but there is a Charlotte McDonald born 1898 in Aston Birmingham ?????

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 22:46
*Glares at Vallee*

Yes, I did a search of Charlotte no names, but there were far too many to make any sense.


I missed your post re Charlotte May in 1911. I will try to say something sensibie about that tomorrow - must go to bed!


22-09-09, 22:48
Charlotte was apparently very bitter that the Aunt did not take her along with the other two, and especially after the two sibs died (when she presumably would have had room).

If I were Charlotte I'd have been pleased not to be taken in if she'd managed to kill off two of my siblings already

Have you considered other spellings e.g McLeod/Macleod?

22-09-09, 22:55
Charlotte Elizabeth McCloud
District: Aston
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 328

dont know if you have this ????

22-09-09, 23:05
I don't suppose there's any clue as to the Aunt's name?

Olde Crone
22-09-09, 23:29

thanks, yes, that's the one I found originally - and the one Merry killed off!!!


No, don't know the aunt's name but will ask tomorrow.

Just in the spirit of sharing, so no can accuse me of not giving vital info, lol! - Charlotte Elizabeth was trained in the Home to be a teacher of Deaf/Blind finger spelling. I wonder if that might help narrow down the Home she was in? (No one seems to know)

Now I really AM going to bed!


22-09-09, 23:36
Have you looked at Lottie McCloud born 1902?

That would be the year of birth if not "corrected" by teh pensions office.

In 1911 Lottie is living with Charles McCloud c1876, Florrie c1895 and Charlie c1906

This family in 1901 is Charles, wife Annie c1876, Florence, and Charles c1899

Annie McCloud (wife) dies Aston in 1907
Charles McCloud (son) born 1900 dies 1903

Charles (husband) c1876 dies 1913

Charles Sidney (2nd son) born Aston 1905 dies in 1929

It doesn't fit precisely but is a very good nearly

I can't see anything for Lottie other than her birth - no marriage or death in what's available.

23-09-09, 07:23
I can't see anything for Lottie other than her birth - no marriage or death in what's available.

That all sounds pretty hopeful to me. *tentative emoticon*

I'm at Ikea today! lol So I may have lost the will to live by this evening!!

23-09-09, 07:26
Also, if someone called Lottie went to get their birth cert, the registrar would probably say, "But your birthname will be Charlotte, not Lottie" so that's the cert she was given!

*wonders why they didn't give her the one for Charlotte May which would be closer in age to what she 'thought' she was?*

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 16:23
Ah, yes! I had pieced together that family, Zoe, but couldn't make it gel last night.

Funny how you get a "feeling" about a family being the right one even though you don't have any proof!

Also, I have never been able to understand how someone would think they were five years younger than they were told they were. If she went into the Home as a baby then someone would surely notice she'd been there a very long time!

Lol- she got an extra five year's pension cos of some clerical error by a jobsworth!

Another thing which is puzzling me - I shall ring friend in a minute....if Charlotte Elizabeth went into the Home as a baby, an orphan, then who told her about her family???


23-09-09, 16:46
If she went in as a baby she wouldn't have known about her aunt rejecting her. That's not the sort of family tale that's passed on, surely?

I suppose any sign of Lottie McCloud later on might nail it. But whilst she remains a disappeared child there's good reason to believe that she may be Charlotte Elizabeth.

Would be great to track down who this aunt may be.

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 17:26
Just rang my friend and then remembered she works late on a Wednesday!

I suppose it is just possible that Lottie was home on a visit in 1911?

There is a POSSIBLE death for Florence aged 24 in Portsmouth in 1918 (a sister fell down stairs and died of her injuries) or a marriage in 1916 in Aston.

Think J is going to be spending her children's inheritance on a lot of certs, lol. (Ooh, Charlotte Elizabeth has a huge expensive headstone...with the wrong info on it....)

None of this proves whether Charlotte and WAB were married, of course,(I don't think they were) but what a turn up for the books!

I'll let you know the outcome of all this.


23-09-09, 17:28
But, if her father were still alive there would be no reason for her to be in a Children's Home 1911

Margaret in Burton
23-09-09, 18:03
Just noticed this thread, will be keeping an eye on it and helping if I can.

23-09-09, 18:19
But, if her father were still alive there would be no reason for her to be in a Children's Home 1911

If the father were working and couldn't look after the little girl, she might well end up in a home.

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 18:37
Spoke to my friend, who spoke to her mum and rang me back.

J says that to the end of her life Charlotte knocked four years off her age because "I don't care what those daft beggars say, I was born in 1901". They thought she was just being stupid.

J is gobsmacked at what we have found and thinks we are all magicians! She is going to send for birth/death of Charlotte Elizabeth, and birth of Lottie to see if they all have the same parents.

I think Lottie may have been in and out of the Home because her mother lost two babies and was apparently quite ill each time. She died of TB and so did her husband, so depending on what these certs say, she will then get all the certs for the other children and parents too.

I'm going to have a root round and see if I can find a school for deaf/blind children in Birmingham in the early 1900s, with a Miss Lottie McCloud as a teacher!


23-09-09, 18:59
Not sure how long these lasted?

Royal School for Deaf Children on Church Road in Edgbaston, which was established in 1812 and Birmingham Royal Institution for the Blind, established in Harborne in 1846.

Ah, 1901 census:

RG13 piece no 2816
181-185 (probably folio numbers?)
The General Institution for the Blind
Carpenters Road, Edgbaston

Royal Institution for Deaf and Dumb Children (A School Under the Elementary education Act (Blind and Deaf) 1892)
Church Road, Edgbaston

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 19:20
Oooh, thanks Merry, I'll see what I can find out!

J is certain we have found the right family as she suddenly remembered that Charlotte's mother was called Annie and her father called Charles (oh, grr, that would have been useful yesterday!)


Uncle John
23-09-09, 19:26
I do hope you get this sewn up before I go on holiday. The suspense will be overwhelming otherwise.

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 19:53
Haha UJ, you may have to cancel your holliers, because she has now asked me to try to find:

Annie SMITH (Charlotte/Lottie's mother) and

William Alfred BROWN (J's father).

I may be gone some time.


Uncle John
23-09-09, 19:58
Similar to my experience on Saturday at a hobbies event at the church. Online access and chasing one person's family around the censuses and BMDs. Got back 2 whole generations in an hour or so.

23-09-09, 20:14
If you need it I found Charles McCloud in the earlier census with mistranscriptions. I can post it later when I get home as it's on the laptop

Erm - am I allowed to opt out of Annie SMith?

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 20:34

you can only opt out if I can! I just tried to search Ancestry and broke it, sorry everyone.

I would appreciate either the image or the ref, Zoe,when you have time, thankyou very much.


23-09-09, 20:35
I think in one of them he was with parents and down as McClaud - the other one might be McClouse

The whole family moved up to Aston from London

(this is from memory so I reserve the right to correct myself at midnight)

23-09-09, 20:48
Annie Smith said she was born in Great Bridge, which is most likely a place between Dudley and West Brom. I have yet to work out which reg district it's in!!

23-09-09, 20:51
I'm hedging towards Dudley, as today it is called Great Bridge, Tipton, West Midlands. Tipton is Dudley District and Great Bridge was therefore in Staffs and not Warwickshire (I think!)

Margaret in Burton
23-09-09, 21:01
Annie Smith said she was born in Great Bridge, which is most likely a place between Dudley and West Brom. I have yet to work out which reg district it's in!!

Just looked at Google Maps

Great Bridge is in Tipton, Staffordshire now

Margaret in Burton
23-09-09, 21:03
It's Dudley


Olde Crone
23-09-09, 21:06
Huh, why am I getting the **** off message from Ancestry and you lot aren't?

I may have (very tentatively) found a candidate for WAB. J said her parents "met on a the platform at Bristol Station" and I've found one who was born in Bristol, correct year and quarter.

J also said her father registered the births of all his children, not Charlottie, so he probably lied to the Registrar about being married - if the question was even asked of a MAN, of course.


23-09-09, 21:27
If they said "are you married", he probably said Yes and wasn't lying! lol (sorry!)

Olde Crone
23-09-09, 21:42
Yes, good point Merry!

I'm off to bed now, been up since 6 and up again at 6 tomorrow.

Night night and thankyou for all your help everyone!


23-09-09, 23:03
okay - this is what I sat and worked out last night for the family of Charles McCloud

Births Dec 1875
McCloud Charles Frederick Pancras 1b 172

1881 census
Alma Crescent, Duddeston, Aston, Warwickshire

RG11; Piece: 3028; Folio: 126; Page: 47

(transcribed as McClouse)

James, head, 33, born: Woolwich, Kent - bricklayer's Laborer
Charlotte, wife, 31, born: Woolwich, kent
Charlotee A, dau, 10, born: Kentish Town, Middlesex, London
William J, son, 7, born: Kentish Town, Middlesex, London
Charles F son, 5, born: Kentish Town, Middlesex, London
Ernest J, son, 3, born: B'ham, Warwick
Albert G, son, 7 mos, born: B'ham, Warwick

1891 census

Alma Crescent, Duddeston
RG12; Piece: 2418; Folio 53; Page 45

(transcribed as Cloud)
James M, 43, Bricklayer, Woolwich
Charlotte, 41, Woolwich
WIlliam, 12 Paper Hanger, London (also has 17 written in marital status)
Charles F, 15, bricklayers Apprentice, London
Charlotte A, 19, Tailoress. London
Ernest, 12, Tile Cutter, brimingham
George, 9, Birmingham
Florence, 6, Birmingham (original not clear - big mark through it))
Sidney, 6, Birmingham

1901 census

RG13; Piece: 2869; Folio: 43; Page: 29

James McCloud 53 Builder
William J McCloud 27 Stage Manager
Ernest J McCloud 23 Bricklayer
Sydney McCloud 16 Plumber's Labourer
Florence McCloud 11
John McCloud 8
Lucinda Ruck, 24, housekeeper

Marriage = 1874 J Islington 1b 379
James McCloud and Charlotte Graham

birth - 1847 Dec Lewisham 5 291
death - 1907 Sep age- 60 Aston 6d 144

McCloud, Charlotte
death - 1898 Dec age - 50 Aston 6d 190

McCloud Charlotte Ann
birth - 1871 Mar Pancras 1b 149

McCloud William James
birth 1873 Sep Pancras 1b 163

McCLOUD Ernest John
birth - 1878 Jun Aston 6d 396
marr - 1903 Mar Aston 6d 240

MCCLOUD Albert George
birth - 1880 Dec Aston 6d 309
marr - 1918 `sep Aston 6d 787 (partner = Fisher)

McCloud Martyn Sidney
???birth - 1882 Mar Aston 6d 315

McCloud Florence
birth - 1889 Sep Aston 6d 330

McCloud John
birth - 1892 Dec Aston 6d 332

Worth noting that the deaths for Charles' father James McCloud and Charles' wife Annie are registered in the same quarter and are on sequential pages (143 and 144)

23-09-09, 23:07
Still going aas I'm wide awake

1871 census

RG10; Piece: 249; Folio: 29; Page: 53

James McCloud Head 23 Railway Porter, B: Plumstead, Kent
Charlotte McCloud Wife 21, B: Plumstead, kent
Charlotte A McCloud Dau 3 months, B: London, Middlesex

1861 census

RG9; Piece: 408; Folio: 74; Page: 11

John McCloud 54, Head, Wheelwright, B: Woolwich Kent
Maria McCloud 43,Wife, B: Dagenham, Essex
James McCloud 13, Son, Labourer in Arsenal, B: Woolwich Kent
Eliza McCloud 11, Dau, B: Woolwich Kent
Mary Ann McCloud, Dau, 9 B: Woolwich Kent
Clara McCloud, Dau, 5 B: Woolwich Kent

23-09-09, 23:18
James and Charlotte's marriage is on LMA

Olde Crone
24-09-09, 16:23

Thankyou so much for that - I'm just home from work.

Charlottie's first son was called Graham - coincidence?!

Only one daughter I see, and she was only a few years older than her brother's children, so probably NOT the Aunt who took the children, that Aunt must be on Annie Smith's side. *Groan*

Due to a boring day at work I have managed to marshal a few thoughts and a plan!

Going to suggest she pays for a three year search at the GRO for the supposed marriage of WAB and Lottie. I will be stunned if they find anything mind you, but it will at least put her mind at rest that someone "official" has looked.

WAB and Lottie supposedly married at a "famous Register Office in London" just en months before J's birth. I couldn't think what she meant until about lunchtime today and then realised she must mean Caxton Hall, as that's the only one I have actually heard of.

Today, whilst bored, I was talking to a colleague who is a retired Registrar and was telling him about the Charlotte/Lottie mix-up and he interrupted me and said "Gosh, if you only knew how many times that has happened".

He agreed with me that people generally didn't prize or value a birth cert in those days (couldn't see the purpose of it, other than a baffling bit of official nosey parkering), so when they were actually called on to produce one, they just produced whichever one they happened to have, that they hadn't lit the fire with, lol.

I am also going to see if I can identify any children for Florence (the Aunt). You never know what people have been told and even a tiny bit of info about WAB and Charlottie may turn out to be the breakthrough.


24-09-09, 17:49
Caxton Hall was in the City of Westminster District in 1933, not Marylebone! Not that looking there turns up anything new.

Olde Crone
24-09-09, 20:40
Ah, yes Merry. However, we don't know when Charlottie gave the information that she was married at Caxton Hall...and as she had never been near the place, lol, wouldn't have known exactly where it was.

A very interesting snippet on the history of Caxton Hall gives the information that Diana Dors married there in 1951 "having only known her husband for four weeks".

My mind immediately did several jumps to Charlottie reading this in the paper at the time and then the next time a nosey neighbour asked her "And where did you marry, Mrs Brown?" out came the story of marrying at Caxton Hall after only knowing her intended for four weeks.

When J's youngest sister heard this tale, she scoffed and said "That's the most famous Register Office in England, everyone's heard of that but no one's ever been there!"

I have asked friend to ask her mum if she can remember anything, anything at all about her father's parents (WAB)..like a first name, lol. So far all she knows is that he was the eldest of eight children.

J already has Charlotte Elizabeth's birth cert!!!! Apparently, Charlotte made such a fuss about getting her pension when she wasn't entitled to it (was worried she would have to pay it back when they found out their mistake) that J sent off for a search for her birth cert to the GRO, giving her parents' names as Charles and Annie Smith, and that was the cert they sent back.

When Charlotte saw it, she snapped "That's not mine, I don't have a middle name Elizabeth" but the rest of the family told her she must be mistaken, or had forgotten, because the cert had the correct parents on it and even she agreed with that. (Remember, this was in the 1950s, when no one was family history savvy and who could doubt the mighty GRO, especially as they had used this birth to trigger the Pension).

J asked me to thank you all from the bottom of her heart and said you have found out more about her mother in three days than J herself has found out in nearly 75 years.


Olde Crone
24-09-09, 22:46
Found some of the above McClouds on a rather shaky Ancestry tree, lol and have sent the tree owner a message. Hope he knows more than he's put on his tree...


Olde Crone
13-09-13, 12:47
New information required please!

Does anyone have access to the Birmingham 1929 Electoral Rolls? I have tried the official site, but although it allows a free search it doesn't tell you if they found anything until you buy vouchers and I don't want to buy vouchers if there's nothing there!

I am basically looking for Lottie McCloud, who should have been living in Birmingham in 1929. Also in Birmingham in 1929, although both died in 1929, were her sister and brother. I have addresses for both of them.

Charles Sydney McCloud (died 10 Feb 1929)of 23 Thornton Rd Washwood Heath Birmingham.

Florence Louise Pratt (died April 2nd 1929) wife of John Henry Pratt, of 125 Dollman St, Vauxhall, Birmingham.

I am hoping that Lottie will be living with one of them. I am clutching at straws......


Mary from Italy
13-09-13, 16:28
Ancestry has some Birmingham electoral rolls, but only 1912 for Washwood Heath, and Vauxhall isn't listed.

Have you tried e-mailing Birmingham library? With a bit of luck they might do you a free search as you have a couple of addresses to try.

Olde Crone
13-09-13, 17:59
Thankls Mary, I'll try that.


13-09-13, 18:29
I've enjoyed reading this thread again!

13-09-13, 20:10
So did I. I did think to look at the date about page 3. Lol

Olde Crone
13-09-13, 20:42
Oh, gosh, sorry ladies, I did put an "update" edit on the first post! I didn't want to start a new thread.

I realised rather late in the day that we had been concentrating so hard on WAB, alleged husband of Lottie, that I had failed to notice 20 missing years of Lottie's life. She was allegedly in an orphanage. She somehow became a teacher of deaf and dumb sign language (where did she learn that and why?). When her brother and sister died in 1929, so close together, she had a nervous breakdown and was sent to the Isle of Wight (why? who by?). Her sister Florence was "her whole life" - so why didn't she go and look after Florence's only daughter?

She was apparently a very attractive woman (and her daughter and granddaughter are both beautiful) so why did she have no romance in her life (as far as we know!) until aged 33, she meets a married man on a railway station and has a child with him nine months later!

Lots of gaps to fill in.


14-09-13, 07:19
Post 42 has a couple of ideas for places she might have learned sign language.

Is Florence the one who fell down the stairs? Maybe if Lottie had a nervous breakdown at that time she was considered unsuitable to look after her niece and by the time she was better other arrangements had been made?

14-09-13, 07:54
Do you know who WAB was yet?

I see there are several trees on Ancestry who have him with dob 12th March 1900, but none of them have parents for this man which is very odd as he shows up easily on the 1901 and 1911 census (by which time he has moved from London to Devon which seemed promising if you ignore the Caxton Hall story!) EDIT Maybe it doesn't help if their first child was b in Essex!

Is the reason for no parents on these trees because no one wants to commit to this man being the right person?

Do you know if WAB had a regional accent?

Olde Crone
14-09-13, 08:23

I have WAB back several generations, we did him before, lol. He lived in Plymouth as a child and went into the navy as a boy sailor in 1912 - have his service record which maddeningly ends at the interesting bit in 1929! We know from his service record that he was married - but not who to, and with a name like Brown, it is impossible to guess.

Unfortunately his daughter is now 80 and her recall seems to be more wishful thinking than fact - she recently told me that he had joined the RAF after he left the navy but RAF have no record of this. When I told her I couldn't find anything, she got her B-I-L on the case, as "he is very good at finding things" so I left it!

It's Lottie I'm interested in now as we seem to have neglected her as a person of interest.


EDIT - yes, Florence broke her neck falling down stairs, Charlie died of TB. And you are right of course, Lottie would have been in no fit state to look after a child.

14-09-13, 09:02
I'm so glad you know who WAB is! lol

The Isle of Wight does seem a very long way for someone to travel from Birmingham "for their nerves" if they didn't have pots of money. Do you know where on the island she was?

I did wonder if Lottie had a baby whilst she was down there, but it doesn't seem very likely unless the child was stillborn.

Olde Crone
14-09-13, 09:20
My thoughts exactly, Merry.

Don't know where she was but there are photos of her "on the beach", which proves nothing, I know (other than maybe she wasn't pregnant, lol!). The asylum on the IOW did have a private wing - I wondered whether she had been sent there through some benevolent organisation connected with her work. I can vaguely remember when I worked for a large company in London many years ago, that they had a convalescent home (or maybe a ward in one?) in Devon.


14-09-13, 09:38
Yes, I guess that's possible.

(BTW, I jus read this thread, below - amazing what I now don't remember anything about! lol)