View Full Version : Any legal brains there please, or even just a brain

19-09-09, 21:06
Can anybody tell me what this means please:

"Notice is hereby given that ND of Shildon, Ironfounder, by indenture dated 17th November 1875, conveyed and signed all his real and personal estate and effects unto Alfred Hollis of Darlington, Iron Manufacturers, and Thomas Dunford of Newcastle, in trust for the equal benefit of all the creditors of said ND."

Ta ever so

Olde Crone
19-09-09, 21:19
Bankruptcy, in a word, or a very near miss, avoiding it by handing over whatever he has.

He's given everything he owns, to be held "in trust" for the benefit of his creditors.


Joan of Archives
19-09-09, 21:20
Now that D wouldn't stand for Downing would it?? *runs* :d

19-09-09, 21:31
Come back Joanie, he cannot possibly hurt you. Tut.

OC, that's what I first thought EXCEPT that the Company ND owned carried on through successive generations and only wound up in the late 1970s. I wondered if it could have been a sort of guarantee for a loan?

Olde Crone
19-09-09, 21:34
No, I think he must have been on the verge of bankruptcy and the other two bailed him out but made him give everything he had into trust, perhaps allowing him to stay in the company on a salary.


19-09-09, 21:45
Oh dear this only confuses things further then.........because the Company is continued down four generations of Downings after that. I am beginning to hate this lot!

It does explain why after his brother's death (who owned a different foundry which once they jointly owned if you follow me), there was a notice put in the papers to say that any money owed to said brother was to be paid to the executors, and not to Nicholas Downing.

20-09-09, 09:24
I had apprenticeship Indentures in 1966....my company bought all my tools and I had to pay them back at 11 shillings a week for 2 years....could this be a similar situation ?....sorry ,but the only Indentures I have ever heard of are for an apprentice....allan:confused:

Olde Crone
20-09-09, 11:37

the word "indenture" just describes a particular type of legal document.

It goes back into the mists of time when two copies of an agreement were made on the same piece of parchment then torn jaggedly (indentures = toothmarks) and one half given to each party to the agreement.

When the agreement was finished, the two halves were matched up to prove satisfaction and everyone went home, lol.

Indenture now just means "two copies of the same document which record a legal agreement to satisfy a condition" (almost always a loan now, unless there really are any apprentices still).


20-09-09, 13:15
Yes, there are apprentice farriers!

Olde Crone
20-09-09, 13:26
Blimey Margaret, you do surprise me, I thought apprenticeships were a thing of the past!

My dad was apprenticed to ICI in 1937, one of the 5,000 apprenticeships they offered every year. By the time he retired, in 1984, they were offering just TEN apprenticeships a year. I doubt if they offer any now.


20-09-09, 15:12
You're right of course, there are very few apprenticeships these days - more's the pity as you might get a tradesman who knew what he was doing!
I recall Ford Motor Company used to take on similar numbers of apprentices each year but I think they stopped around the same time. I think there was a change in government policy around Training Boards and funding so that's probably what caused them to stop.

20-09-09, 17:32
OH's great-uncle's apprenticeship record was cut with dressmaking pinking shears down one side. :)