View Full Version : A puzzle for anyone who is bored

01-09-09, 15:45
If anyone is bored and wants to help me unmuddle something. My Grandfather !! James Thorpe died Feb 1939 24 Park Road East Ham age 49 occupation Coal Miner I have death cert. He married 24 December 1910 Sarah Ann Kirkland Newcastle Upon tyne occupation still Coal Miner his father shown as Edward Thorpe (are you with me so far) 1911 Census James and Sarah are married and living with Lyall Waggott and family in Benwell NUT now this is where the mystery comes in, Lyall Waggot is shown as born 1883 Durham Lancchester (keep this in mind) back a bit further 1891 census shows my grandfather James Thorp (no E) living with his parents Edward and Mary A Thorp Durham Blaydon plus James broter LYALL Thorp age 8 born Lanchester !!!!!! Now I cannot find a birth reg for Lyall Thorp or Lyall Waggott. I know there is a connection between Waggott and Thorpe as my fathers middle name is Waggott. So are Lyall Waggott and Lyall Thorpe one and the same person? Oh kind of feel better about this having written it down. xxhugxx

01-09-09, 15:53
Do you know Mary A's maiden name, and do you know when Edward and Mary A got married? And whose brother is Lyall Thorp, James's or Edward's?

01-09-09, 15:55
Have you taken the parents Eward and Mary A any further back and come across the Waggott name?

01-09-09, 15:58
1891 = RG12; Piece: 4189; Folio 49; Page 36

Lyall is down as son to Edward and Mary A

Edward c1855 Hunslet Yorkshire
Mary A c1856 Benfieldside, Durham wife
Lyall c1882 Lanchester son
James c 1890 Blaydon son

01-09-09, 15:59
Layll on 1891 is brother of James . I found a marriage for Lyall Waggot he married Jesie Hall Gateshead Dec 1904. Have yet to confirm marriage for Edward and Mary. Maybe I have not yet done enough to ask for your assistance. xxxhugxx

01-09-09, 16:01
Well, do you have James' birth certificate, Lindy? That would give you Mary's maiden name.

01-09-09, 16:05
No cannot find birth reg yet. It is Lyall who fascinates me xxhugxx

01-09-09, 16:10
THere's a marriage for Edward Thorpe to Mary Ann Robson in Gateshead in 1889, According to the FreeBMD Gateshead district covers Blaydon

Marriages Dec 1889
Robson Mary Ann Gateshead 10a 1325
THORPE Edward Gateshead 10a 1325

01-09-09, 16:12
That sounds a possible adds to list for certs thank you xxhugxx

01-09-09, 16:48
Ah, this is looking good on the 1901 (copyright TNA):

12 Pioneer St., Winlaton, Blaydon, Durham:
Richard Thorpe Head M 46 Coal Hewer(?) Leeds Yorkshire
Annie M Do Wife M 36 Sheffield Do
Francis Thos Do Son S 17 Metal Castings Cleaner Scotland
George Do Son 11 Blaydon Durham
Henry Do Son 9 Do Do
Mary E Do Daur 8 Do Do
James Do Son 6 Do Do
Albert Do Son 4 Do Do
Richard Do Son 8 mo Do Do
Lionel Waggott Nephew S 17 Pig Iron Moulder Gateshead Do
William Thorpe Brother S 23 General Labourer Sheffield Yorkshire

01-09-09, 16:58
Hmmm, could just be a coincidence, but there is a Lionel Robson Davidson birth registered Lanchester Dec 1882.

01-09-09, 17:44
To add more confusion, James seems to have another brother in 1901 who should have been with them in 1891:

1901 Benwell, Northumberland
Edward Thorpe Head Wid 47 Leeds Yorkshire
James Do Son S 11 Durham Blaydon
Edward S Do Son 11 Do Do

Probably Edward jr's age is wrong on that one.

01-09-09, 17:53
Ohh that does look interesting. Disappeared to have dinner xxhugxx

01-09-09, 17:54
There are two possible deaths for Mary, one a bit too young and one a bit too old for her age in 1891, both in Gateshead district which included Blaydon and Winlaton:

Sep 1891 Mary Ann Thorpe age 31
Jun 1898 Mary Ann Thorpe age 44.

There is a likely birth for Edward jr in Gateshead:
Edward Septimus Thorp Dec 1893.

If this is him then the 1891 death can't be Mary (unless Edward married again and was widowed again by 1901!) I can't see the birth on Gateshead BMD - I was hoping it might show Mary's maiden name on there - but if you order Edward Septimus Thorp's birth certificate then you will get Mary's maiden name which should help with working out where Lyall / Lionel fits in.

01-09-09, 17:58
Oh thank you Kiterunner, I can see this getting expensive lol but keen to find out just who Lyall was and why my father was named after him. Does seem rather odd given James and Sarah married in 1910 and it took until they had thier 6th child in 1933 to name one after him xxhugxx

01-09-09, 18:01
Oh, I think I've found James's birth registration:

Jun 1890
James Thorp Gateshead 10a 967.

Mary from Italy
01-09-09, 18:35
Possible marriage for Richard and Annie Thorpe:

Marriages Dec 1887
DENHAM Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 137
Gordon Agnes Newcastle T 10b 137
THORPE Richard Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 137
WOLSTENHOM Anna Maria Newcastle T. 10b 137
WOLSTENHOM Annie Maria Newcastle T. 10b 137

01-09-09, 18:40
Oh well done Mary thank you xxhugxx

Mary from Italy
01-09-09, 19:17
In 1881, there's a Mary Robson, aged 29, born Benfieldside, living with husband Walter Robson, two Robson children, and a stepson called John Bowey? Postle.

This will be their marriage:

Marriages Dec 1873
Edgar Ellen Durham 10a 573
Marsh Thomas Elliott Durham 10a 573
POSTLE Mary Durham 10a 573
ROBSON Walter Durham 10a 573

Not sure if this is Edward Thorp's wife Mary A.

Mary from Italy
01-09-09, 19:24
No, sorry, forget that, they're still together in 1891.

01-09-09, 19:35
lol Mary bigamy? xxhugxx

Mary from Italy
01-09-09, 19:51
I thought it might be a first marriage for Mary Ann, as that was the only Mary Robson from Benfieldside I could find in 1881, but as that couple are still together in 1891 it obviously isn't her.

01-09-09, 21:01
Wonderful of you to try Mary thank you xxhugxx