View Full Version : Just want some opinions about this.

28-09-09, 17:00
I am not sure if I've found the right marriage for one of my great-uncles, John William Gray, born Limpenhoe, Norfolk 1879.

I know that he had a granddaughter (she's alive so won't give her details) but her parents' marriage shows that mother was called Madge E.R. Gray.

I was told that John William Gray's wife was called Madge although that was her surname!

Found a marriage at St John the Baptist Hoxton June 1902, between Emily Madge and John William Gray and got all excited! Hoxton is a likely venue as John William and his brothers all moved from Norfolk and lived around that area of London.

But the marriage cert on LMA online shows John's occupation is "engineer" and his father is John Gray (correct) occupation "carpenter".

Now John senior was a fisherman, labourer, gardener, but never a carpenter.

John William was a City of London policeman, not an engineer, and he resigned in Nov 1902, 5 months after this marriage.


2nd puzzle is that in 1911 (hoping I could find out how long they'd been married to see if I could claim this marriage)

I find Emily Gray, a widowed servant at St. Pancras Poor Law Infirmary.

Madge E.R. Gray is staying with grandparents in Ottery St. Mary. Her grandfather is John Madge, a farmer, which does fit with the marriage cert.

BUT I can't find a likely death for John William?

I welcome any input, peeps!

28-09-09, 17:08
I've found two possible deaths
John Gray Age at Death: 32 [abt 1879]
1911 Apr-May-Jun Edmonton 3a Page: 278

or, with name the wrong way round, when staying with Emily's parents?
William John Gray Age at Death: 28 [abt 1880]
1908 Apr-May-Jun Honiton 5b Page: 18

28-09-09, 17:19
I've found two possible deaths
John Gray Age at Death: 32 [abt 1879]
1911 Apr-May-Jun Edmonton 3a Page: 278

If his death took place at the very end of March he could have been registered in Q2. (maybe that's not actually helpful! lol)

28-09-09, 17:24
What about finding John Madge on the earlier censuses to see if he has a dau called Emily who fits with the widowed lady in 1911?

28-09-09, 17:44
Is does all fit, I see.

I can only think there was some reason what John W didn't want give correct details at the wedding (not exactly fitting for a policeman!! lol)

28-09-09, 17:48
Yes, I think typing it out has made me think that for whatever reason John William wanted his and his father's occupations to be a bit grander. And he did resign from the force a few months later.

He's the only one of my Dad's uncles that my Dad didn't know much about - which fits in with him dying young.

Sadly his granddaughter hasn't responded to my letters asking for info, which is a shame.

28-09-09, 17:54
Yes, that is a shame.

Olde Crone
28-09-09, 18:04
On the marriage cert of my great grandfather, he says his late father is a "Locomotive engine driver".

Was he thump. I spent ££££££s on railway sites, only to get the information elsewhere that he was a stationary engine driver ina mill!


28-09-09, 18:40
Yes I think William was trying to impress!

My fave larging it up was Thomas Emmets Matthews though, an uncle of my Dad's on his mother's side. He said his father was a "provisions merchant". His Dad was a milk carrier! He also told my Dad that he ran Tilbury Docks. No, he worked there as a fireman for 2 years!

Joan of Archives
28-09-09, 19:28
Hiya cousin ;)

One of mine when he married put 4 x g granddad down as a "Coach proprietor" another son put him down as a "Gentleman" yet he died before both his sons married, & in fact was a coach driver of the Shannon coach between London & Suffolk! They didn't even mention he was deceased either! Even though they had a common surname (Jones) I know it's them because my 2 x great granddad was a witness of both marriages lol! :d

28-09-09, 19:45
One of mine said her father was a gentleman. He was a foundry labourer! lol

29-09-09, 20:02
Thanks ladies. Not just his lying about his father, but also his own occupation - I mean his bride must have known he was a policeman, surely?

If I am in funds I shall have to send for likely death certs. I don't think he can be the chap who died 1911, because even if his death was registered very early in April, his widow would have had to be very quick off the mark to get a job and ship her daughter off to her parents - unless he'd been ill some time and was unable to work, of course!

11-04-21, 19:14
Update : I got the right death cert. And his granddaughter and I have been in touch and her son is a DNA match with me on Ancestry. So breakthroughs do happen if you wait long enough.

11-04-21, 19:20
How satisfying, what a long time since your first post.

Olde Crone
11-04-21, 20:12
Twelve years! Ah well, everything comes to she who waits, lol.