MFMFF: David Pickles 1787-1841

[ElizabethHerts]

These are children of David and Martha Pickles:

JOHN PICKLES
Christening: 12 JUL 1818 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England

ROBERT PICKLES
Christening: 09 JUL 1820 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England

JOSEPH PICKLES
Christening: 03 JUL 1821 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England

MARY ANNE PICKHILLS
Christening: 18 APR 1824 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England

STEPHEN PICKLES
Christening: 09 JUL 1826 Kildwick, Yorkshire, England

[ElizabethHerts]

The marriage of John and Mary?

I love the surname!

Groom's Name: John Pighels
Bride's Name: Mary Hargreaves
Marriage Date: 12 Jul 1781
Marriage Place: Kildwick,York,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01001-4
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 919148
Reference Number:

[Janet]

Eureka!
Elizabeth and Jay, I can't thank you enough.
I will go through all this when I'm past my first half cup of coffee and have done some Saturday chores. Not too compos mentis yet today. I was keeping OH up at 3:30 in the morning, typing madly madly.
The clues I posted up last night are what I winnowed from the data mining I did on ancestry's recent free day(s). At the time it had all been a blur, and now it was starting to come into focus. But with your help this is now beyond my wildest dreams.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Janet

[ElizabethHerts]

Originally Posted by Janet

Eureka!
Elizabeth and Jay, I can't thank you enough.
I will go through all this when I'm past my first half cup of coffee and have done some Saturday chores. Not too compos mentis yet today. I was keeping OH up at 3:30 in the morning, typing madly madly.
The clues I posted up last night are what I winnowed from the data mining I did on ancestry's recent free day(s). At the time it had all been a blur, and now it was starting to come into focus. But with your help this is now beyond my wildest dreams.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Janet

Janet, you're welcome - it's great fun to have a challenge like this!

Do keep us updated. If you buy the crucial certificates hopefully you can verify some of what we have found.

[Janet]

Yes, I certainly will do! Thanks again Elizabeth, and thanks again to Jay. You're my favorite flavors of the day!

er... flavours

Janet

[Janet]

I now have in hand Emma Pickles' birth cert.:
31 January 1854, Cowling
father Robert Pickles
mother Nancy Pickles formerly Harker
father's occupation bookkeeper
registered 13 February 1854

We saw that Robert Pickles' marriages are probably:
Marriages Dec 1841
EMMOTT Anne Skipton 23 545
EMMOTT James Skipton 23 545
HINDLE John Skipton 23 545
PADDLETON Mary Skipton 23 545
>>>> PICKLES Robert Skipton 23 545
RUSHTON Hannah Skipton 23 545
SMITH Rose Skipton 23 545
WATSON William Skipton 23 545

and

Marriages Dec 1853
Hannan John Skipton 9a 87
Holoran Mary Skipton 9a 87
Holoron Mary Skipton 9a 87
>>>> Pickles Robert Skipton 9a 87

Jay, Merry and KiteRunner all concluded that the missing bride from the 1853 marriage was Nancy Emmott. I concur. One of the scans on FreeBMD is clearer than the other, and it does seem to show 9a 87.

There is a possible marriage in SepQ 1847 in Skipton for Nancy Harker with John Emmott.

Is Nancy Harker therefore the maiden name of Nancy Emmott?
Is it plausible that the maiden name was given and the former married name was not mentioned on Emma's birth certificate?

On my misnamed thread
http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum...=Emmott&page=2
KiteRunner began to track down a possible scenario:

Originally Posted by kiterunner

So... in 1841 Robert Pickles is age 20 with his parents (David and Martha) in Cowling, then there is a possible Robert Pickles / Anne Emmott marriage Oct-Dec 1841 Skipton district. It's one of those with 8 names on the GRO page so we can't be sure who married whom from FreeBMD. Possible death for Ann Pickles Apr-Jun 1845 Skipton district (it's too early for age at death to be on the GRO index), the same quarter as there is a birth for Ann Pickles in Skipton district, so it could be that Ann sr died in childbirth or very soon after Ann jr's birth.

So, it looks as though Robert's first wife was Ann(e) Emmott, daughter of John and Mary, but was his second wife Nancy Emmott? There is a non-conformist christening listed on FamilySearch for Nancy Emmott, 28 Jun 1837 at Kildwick, parents John and Mary. But there is no Nancy with John and Mary in 1841. Also there is a married Nancy Emmott, age 24, on the 1851 census, so she might be the one. Or it could turn out that Robert's second wife was Mary Holoran and that Nancy Emmott is a red herring after all! So it seems to come back to the best thing being to get the James Berry / Emma Pickles marriage certificate, and Emma Pickles' birth certificate.

If I want to be sure of Robert Pickles' first marriage, I'll have to bite the bullet and order his 1841 marriage cert. and/or either his son David's or daughter Ann (Jr.)'s birth cert.

And I suppose I'll have to order his 1853 marriage cert. to nail that down as well.

The shopping list grows!

[kiterunner]

Originally Posted by Janet

There is a possible marriage in SepQ 1847 in Skipton for Nancy Harker with John Emmott.

Is Nancy Harker therefore the maiden name of Nancy Emmott?
Is it plausible that the maiden name was given and the former married name was not mentioned on Emma's birth certificate?

It looks quite likely, but as you say, you will need some more certs to prove it. There are a few John Emmott deaths in Skipton district between 1847 and 1853.

[Janet]

Thanks Kite!

[Janet]

I know now that my MFMFF, father of Robert Pickles of Cowling, was David Pickles. This is from many sources, including a Pickles cousin who found me through this website. I have to get some certs to prove it, though.

[Janet]

Just bumping this thread up so that others might find it, especially my cousins Alison, Nerrida and Karen Shearer. Post #1 is now filled in with my latest information. I've requested an admin to change the title to MFMFF: David Pickles 1787-1841.