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Old 07-01-15, 06:13
Qwackers Qwackers is offline
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hi , I am still trying to establish ellen callen s mother ciceley callen's maiden name . Ellen born in 1824 princess st wigan . Can't go any further than this , I have been told that a marriage of William grimshaw and ellen calland in 1844 are the same person , but the dates don't tally . Plus I have got ellen callen's child's record from Glasgow and she is definetly Callen on the certificate and not calland as seen in a marriage of 1844 all saints . I don't know if it was common to change names , but maybe someone else will know I need to establish her parents roots , as there are plenty of callens in Scotland , Any help gratefully received . Thanks
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Old 07-01-15, 06:46
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Welcome to the forum!

There are two baptisms for babies named Ellen Callen dau of Wm and Ciceley, though at the moment I can't find a burial for the first child:

Ellen Callen b 1 Feb 1824 bap 17 Apr 1824 Wigan, All Saints, father William Callen, mother Ciceley Callen


Ellen Callen b 1 May 1825 bap 17 Jul 1825 Wigan, All Saints, father William Callen, mother Cicely Callen

The second Ellen was born baptised from Princess St.

Other children who appear to have been born to this couple are:

Margaret 1827
Elizabeth 1829
Richard 1832
Ciceley 1837
Margaret 1839
William 1841
Peter 1845

There may be others as I didn't try every permutation!

So we might expect them to have married about 1824 and they should be on the 1841 census and hopefully later censuses too.

This may be their marriage:

Marriage: 31 Aug 1823 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
William Calland - (X), This Parish
Ciceley Walker - (X), This Parish
Witness: Edwd Fell; William Webster
Married by Banns by: Jonathan Topping Curate
Register: Marriages 1818 - 1824, Page 275, Entry 823
Source: LDS Film 1562960


What child was born in Glasgow?

I am moving this thread to our Research board.
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Old 07-01-15, 07:12
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These names seem familiar to me - I think we need to read through this old thread:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...hlight=calland

Also this one:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...hlight=calland

Callen / Calland would not be a case of changing their name, just people pronouncing / spelling it differently. A lot of people could not read and write in those days, so they would not be able to tell the clerks etc how to spell their name.
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Old 07-01-15, 07:15
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Quote:
I don't know if it was common to change names
it's not so much a change of name but when people were illiterate names were spelled how they sounded by those writing them down, so Callen/Callan/Callard etc could easily be the same people.

Must dash now....
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Old 07-01-15, 07:35
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Bearkins, when you say that the dates for Ellen don't tally, do you mean because she is 21 on her marriage in 1844 but she was really a bit younger? It was quite common for people to claim to be 21 when they got married because it meant they didn't need to get their parents' permission.
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Old 07-01-15, 07:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearkins View Post
I don't know if it was common to change names, but maybe someone else will know I need to establish her parents roots , as there are plenty of callens in Scotland.
Names could vary a great deal. As others have commented, this wasn't intentional as large numbers of people couldn't read or write at the time in questions. Curates, vicars, priests or whoever wrote down the names as they heard them spoken.

In Scotland, matters were further complicated in that names were transliterated from Gaelic in many parts of the country. Added to this, there was a process of anglicising surnames. For example, McGilthighnich became McIlheany and eventually Shaw. Mac prefixes were dropped from some names. If there is a Scottish connection, then you would also need to look at McCallan as a variant of Callen.
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Old 07-01-15, 08:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiterunner View Post
These names seem familiar to me - I think we need to read through this old thread:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...hlight=calland

Also this one:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...hlight=calland
Thanks Kate.

The marriage record for Wm and Ciceley and the baptisms for their children are now available as images on ancestry.
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Old 07-01-15, 08:45
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Looking at the other threads, this is what appears on the 1841 census:

Ince
William Calland, 40, coal miner
Cicely, 35, labourer
Elllen, 15, coal miner
Mary, 15 labourer
Elizabeth, 13
Richard, 10
Thomas, 6
Margaret, 2

All born in county.

I can find the following births/baptisms on Ancestry:

Ellen, born 1 Feb 1824, bapt 17 April 1824
Ellen, born 1 May 1825, bapt 17 July 1825
Margaret, born 10 March 1827, bapt 8 April 1827
Elizabeth born 7 Feb 1829, bapt 5 July 1829
Ciceley, born May 1837, bapt 13 June 1837

The 1851 census states that Ciceley senior's place of birth is Upholland, Lancashire.

There are two baptisms for Ciceley Walker in Upholland. The first is in January 1803, but this child was buried in February. the second was baptised on 25 March 1804. Father's name is Richard.
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Old 07-01-15, 09:22
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Quote:
Ellen, born 1 Feb 1824, bapt 17 April 1824
Ellen, born 1 May 1825, bapt 17 July 1825
Margaret, born 10 March 1827, bapt 8 April 1827
Elizabeth born 7 Feb 1829, bapt 5 July 1829
Ciceley, born May 1837, bapt 13 June 1837
There are some more in post #2 but I didn't put the full dates as I was supposed to be making breakfast!
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Old 08-01-15, 04:58
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Hi , thanks for all the info , now need to establish where wlm callen was born , that may prove a little more difficult . Any help gratefully recieved . Thanks
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