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#1
30-07-22, 22:50
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Parents of Elizabeth and Charles Bray
These would be my MMMMM and MMMMF.
Charles Bray (31 January 1811 – 5 October 1884) is well documented as a ribbon manufacturer, social radical and friend of George Eliot, (when she was still Mary Ann or Marian Evans). His Wikipedia page says his father died in 1835, leaving him and each of his 6 siblings a 'substantial inheritance'. One of those, his older sister Elizabeth, (my MMMM) was also a close friend of Mary Ann Evans, (and introduced Charles to her.) Elizabeth married Abijah Hill Pears on 28 May 1834. In the 1851 census she gave her age as 48, so was probably born in 1807 or 1808. The father of Charles and Elizabeth (and also of James, Emily, Mary, Ann and Helen) was named Jonathan Bray and his Will naming those children (with a codicil naming Abijah) was proved on 2 Jul 1835 (PROB 11/1849/24). However, there is confusion about his marriage (or marriages). Several trees on Ancestry.com list a marriage between Jonathan Bray and Elizabeth Harvey, in April 1815, with Jonathan's occupation listed as 'ribbon manufacturer'. The most plausible of those trees gives the birth or baptism dates for all the children, and a marriage to Elizabeth Harvey on 23 Apr 1815. She was the mother of the youngest, Helen, who was born in 1819, but not of the older ones. That tree gives his date of birth as 1775 and his baptism date as 27 Oct 1791, in Stoke, Warwickshire - see https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/fami...98038171/facts But I am slightly skeptical about the baptism record, at the Anglican parish church at Stoke, with parents William and Mary. If it were a nonconformist chapel I might find it easier to believe that this was a 13 or 16-year old. There is another equally implausible baptism record for a Jonathan Bray, with parents Joseph and Ann, at St. Michaels, Coventry, on 31 Oct 1792. There is a burial record from Stoke, Warwickshire, dated 27 Apr 1835, for a Jonathan Bray, aged 57. That would mean he was born in 1778. The same page has a record of the burial two weeks earlier of a Mary Bray, aged 25. His first wife was my MMMMM, but I have so far drawn a blank on identifying her. One more point: there was another child, named Henry, baptised on 12 May 1815, at St. Michael Coventry, listing parents as Jonathan and Elizabeth (a month after their marriage). This Henry was buried at Stoke on 9 Jul 1829. Either Elizabeth was very pregnant when they married, or Henry was a child of the first wife, who then probably died soon after his birth. Last edited by tpb; 31-07-22 at 00:25. Reason: Additional information 
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#2
31-07-22, 08:32
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Quote:
Nothing to do with what you are looking for now, but do you know why the burial record for Jonathan says "Copied out and sent to the register office May 20th 1855 James Bray"? Just me being curious! I'm surprised that the 1815 marriage gives Jonathan's condition as bachelor. I looked at the marriage allegation on FMP and that does state Jonathan to be a ribbon manufacturer but also a bachelor. Why would that be? You mention a Jonathan Bray bap 1792 in Coventry. Isn't it more likely this is his marriage? (or the chap from Stoke bap 1791?) Have you already examined what happened to these other Jonathans, in the assumption neither is your man? Might either of them describe themselves as ribbon manufacturers? I'm not saying this 1815 marriage isn't for your man, but the bachelor ref does throw up these question. So his children are Elizabeth, Charles, James, Emily, Mary, Ann and Helen? Have you tracked the latter four children to establish approx year of birth and place of birth from census records? EDIT Not Mary, obviously, as she died in 1835, or Helen who I presume is the 1838 burial (no registration?). Quote:
I've not read Jonathan's will other than looking at the dates, but I'm assuming all the children mentioned above are beneficiaries? Re the baby, Henry I wonder if he is the child of the couple JB and Eliz Harvey who perhaps married in haste, but maybe that isn't your couple. Having asked a lot of questions, I don't have much time to look at anything now, but will have a look later if someone else doesn't beat me to it!
__________________
"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#3
31-07-22, 09:06
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Names in JBs will signed 9 Jul 1833 proved 2 Jul 1835 (I've added their approx dobs where poss):
Mrs Baker, widow son, James Bray Abraham Herbert of Stoke silkman John Summers of Coventry ironmonger Cleophas Ratliff Coventry silkman Henry Power Atherstone gentleman son Charles Bray (b 1811) tenant, Thomas Brown dau Ann Bray dau Emily Bray dau Elizabeth Bray (b 1802/3) dau Mary Bray (b 1809/10 - described as fourth daughter, and given the order here I imagine Ann and Emily were older than Elizabeth and Mary) dau Helen Bray (under 21) in codicil, Abijah Hill Pears I think that's it, I had to speed up as I read through as I was running out of time again!
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"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#4
31-07-22, 09:23
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https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ca&pId=9976593
Do you know who Caroline Bray is here? (bottom left)
__________________
"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#5
31-07-22, 09:34
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Oh, Charles' wife, perhaps?
EDIT - Oh, Charles and Caroline didn't marry until the following year!!
__________________
"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#6
31-07-22, 10:10
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Hmmm, Emily (Jackling) is aged 45 in 1851, putting her a bit younger than Elizabeth.
Maybe this 1871 census is more accurate?: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...ew/896503:7619 The two sisters together, Emily 65 and Elizabeth 63 which fits the order on JB's will and makes Elizabeth born in 1808ish as you originally stated in the opening post.
__________________
"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#7
31-07-22, 13:18
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Quote:
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#8
31-07-22, 13:34
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I always take what it says on Find a Grave with a pinch of salt, but it has Jonathan Bray marrying Elizabeth Bray 21 Oct 1803. Ancestry doesn't seem to have an image for this marriage record but does have a transcription of the marriage licence record in the Staffordshire marriages:
Name: Jonathan Bray Marriage Banns Age: 21 Marriage License Age: 21 Record Type: Marriage License Birth Date: 1782 Residence Place: Offchurch, Warwick Marriage Banns Date: abt 1803 Marriage License Date: 21 Oct 1803 Marriage License Place: St Michael, St Michael, England Spouse: Elizabeth Bray Occupation: Farmer Edit - it seems that the image for this is on FMP plus there is another entry for Jonathan Bray on there, for 1804. I haven't viewed them.
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#9
31-07-22, 15:10
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Quote:
I will look at the images....still not done my grocery order!
__________________
"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#10
31-07-22, 15:21
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lol I remember looking at that record about 1000 years ago this morning. At the time I thought it was too late for Jonathan and didn't care what his wife's forename was! Also, he wasn't a farmer!! However, now that we know his wife was Elizabeth and the date is OK, or even good, it looks a lot more promissing! The sig on the allegation is different to those in my earier post, but if pushed, it is closer to the two sigs I posted earlier that I think are the right man (1813 and 1828) just a less confident version and with Jonathan in full. I guess I should post the image.........
EDIT the 1804 entry is for a different JB (marrying Mary someone and no Cov connection)
__________________
"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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Hybrid Mode
