HELP NEEDED! O'Neil Family Fencehouses, Houghton Le Spring.

[Olde Crone]

On reflection, if she did indeed marry you would think it would be out of area because otherwise there was a risk that he might bump into his dead mother in the street!

Asylum? Prison?

OC

[Merry]

I still think the electoral rolls should be the first port of call, otherwise you may waste time looking for an event before it happened.

If her son was younger I would accept the family saying she had died when something else had happened (prison, gone off etc etc), but surely a boy in his mid-teens would expect to go to a funeral if told his mother had died?

Of course I guess it's possible he also knew what happened to her (or at least that she didn't die) but found it 'easier' to explain things this way. (and then didn't want to take about it any more, because he knew he wasn't speaking the truth).

[toneil461]

Originally Posted by Olde Crone

Sounds a bit of a fishy tale to me, why didn't he go to the funeral if she had died?

There is a marriage in 1935 in the Durham area, which would have meant your Dad was about 13 at the time. Maybe she married "out" and her family disowned her?

OC

My dad has passed on so cannot ask if he went to the funeral. My dad never ever spoke about his family and I never asked. He was a very private man and the death of his mum (Frances) came from my mum (my dad told my mum)

[toneil461]

May I take this opportunity to thank everyone for their help and advice. I am now back home and have looked at the paperwork which I obtained some 6 months ago.

Firstly: Frances O'Neil's Birth Cert - Born on 28 August 1893 @10 Cement St, Dubmire, Newbottle, (Houghton Le Spring). Farther, James O'Neil (Coalminer). Mother, Margaret Ann (formally Patterson).

Secondly, Marriage Cert: Married on 5 August 1939-Frances O'Neil (age 40) Farther James O'Neil too Ralph King (age 33) a Coalminer/Hewer his farther John King. Married in the presence of J.King & E Wear?. No mention of J O'neil being a witness.

Thirdly, Death Cert: Frances King died 16 Feb 1942 aged 47

Could Frances O'Neil have become Frances King??? can I prove the validity of my findings? Ages don't seem to tally up, but I have been told that people often lied about ages especially as Ralph King was only 33 when they married.

How do I go about checking the Electorial Rolls?.
Rgds
Terry..

[Olde Crone]

Terry

I really am very puzzled.

in your opening post you stated that your dad was told his mother had died but that you could not find a death for her.

But now you say you have her marriage cert and her death cert. I'm not sure what your query is?

OC

[JBee]

Have you looked to see if there were any children of the marriage to Ralph King?

It could well be that they ran off and got married and just asked two locals to be the witnesses.

What were the addresses given on the marriage certificate - the electors roll should be held at the records office covering the place of residence. If its Houghton then it'd be the Durham records office.

Ages can be out - I got a death last week when the daughter registered her mother's death and made her younger by 17 years!!! lol

[toneil461]

Originally Posted by Olde Crone

Terry

I really am very puzzled.

in your opening post you stated that your dad was told his mother had died but that you could not find a death for her.

But now you say you have her marriage cert and her death cert. I'm not sure what your query is?

OC

I cannot find a death cert for Frances O'Neil so I considered the possibility, as many on here have, that she was disowned by her family for some reason, went away and my dad was told she had died, or as 'Merry' said in an earlier post, he just made this story up as he did not want to discuss his family to my mum whilst he was courting her.

So I researched the possibility that Frances got married to someone, leaving my dad with his uncle (Roderick). Hence the finding of Frances King (nee Frances O'Neil). This is where I'm at! Is there any way of proving without doubt that Frances King is my dads mum?
Rgds
Terry..

[Olde Crone]

Can you find another Frances O'Neil with a father called James? What were their addresses on the marriage cert? I think it is very likely indeed that this is your Frances.

As your father would have been 17 when this marriage took place I'm not sure why his Uncle Roderick "brought him up". I wonder if Frances left before 1939 to live with Ralph King and they could not marry until 1939 for some reason (Mr King's wife still alive!). I wonder also if there was a religious difference which incensed the family.

OC

[toneil461]

Originally Posted by JBee

Have you looked to see if there were any children of the marriage to Ralph King?

It could well be that they ran off and got married and just asked two locals to be the witnesses.

What were the addresses given on the marriage certificate - the electors roll should be held at the records office covering the place of residence. If its Houghton then it'd be the Durham records office.

Ages can be out - I got a death last week when the daughter registered her mother's death and made her younger by 17 years!!! lol

Hi, Address on marriage Cert:
Ralph King = 5 Green Ave, Ni------ Estate, Philadelphia. (having real difficulty reading the address, not sure if it's Green Ave cannot read the Estate name but Philadelphia is correct)

Frances O'Neil = Poplar Ave, Villa Estate, Houghton Le Spring. (looks like Poplar Ave)

[toneil461]

Originally Posted by Olde Crone

Can you find another Frances O'Neil with a father called Joseph? What were their addresses on the marriage cert? I think it is very likely indeed that this is your Frances.

As your father would have been 17 when this marriage took place I'm not sure why his Uncle Roderick "brought him up". I wonder if Frances left before 1939 to live with Ralph King and they could not marry until 1939 for some reason (Mr King's wife still alive!). I wonder also if there was a religious difference which incensed the family.

OC

Hi OC, please see my 'Quote' to JBee for marriage addresses.
Thanks! Terry..