HELP NEEDED! O'Neil Family Fencehouses, Houghton Le Spring.

[toneil461]

[B][B]Advice needed on how I can find out what became of my dads mum![/B]

I'm researching my dads history. My dad Edward O'Neil was born at No 10 Cement Street,FenceHouses, Houghton le Spring in October 1922. His mother Frances O'Neil was born in 1893 at the same address and to my knowledge my dad was an only child.
Frances dads name was James O'Neil a coal miner and her mum was Margaret Ann O'Neil (maiden name: Pattison)
Frances brothers were Roderick, Thomas, Harry and William. Sisters were Catherine and Theresa all living at 10 Clements St according to the 1911 census.
My dads mum Frances born 28 Aug 1893, I believe may have died when my dad was young (approx 14/15 yrs old) and was bought up by his uncle 'Roderick' .(apparently came home from work to be told his mum had died) I cannot substantiate her death!

I am unable to establish the cause of death of my dad’s mum Frances as it does not appear on any records.
Hope someone can advise/Help
Rgds
Terry..

[Merry]

So you were thinking Frances was working from the same address at the time she died? Houghton le Spring was in the district of the same name until 1938 and then Durham Northern, but as you said, there doesn't seem to be an obvious registration.

Have you tried researching the electoral rolls for the address to see if Frances is listed and when she vanished. Is there any chance she was married by the time she died?

[Olde Crone]

Sounds a bit of a fishy tale to me, why didn't he go to the funeral if she had died?

There is a marriage in 1935 in the Durham area, which would have meant your Dad was about 13 at the time. Maybe she married "out" and her family disowned her?

OC

[JBee]

I couldn't see anything obvious.

There's 2 possible marriages in Durham

Dec 1927 to Edward Morgan in Darlington 10a 61
Sep1939 to Stephen Mcnaughton in Durham Co 10a 345

or one in 1935 in Manchester to Eric Moss - if she ran off.

There's 2 possible deaths

Jun 1945 Frances O'Neill born c1889 died in Manchester
Mar 1951 Frances E O'Neill age 51 - died in Durham West

Mar 1957 Frances E Moss age 75 - died in Manchester 10e 427

[Merry]

I noted this marriage:

Q3 1939 Durham Northern Vol 10a, Page 1715

Frances O'Neil to Ralph King, Ralph

and this death

Q1 1942 Durham Northern Vol 10a, Page 784
Frances King age 47

but having googled a bit I see someone else pointed out the same entries on Rootsweb last year and you said:

I have also found the details you have given about 6 months ago. I have the marriage certificate and will look at following this lead.
Thanks

But I wondered if you did mean you had the marriage cert, as I would have thought you would know if it was your Frances or not from the father's details, if nothing else? Anyway, did this come to nothing?

[Margaret in Burton]

Maybe she didn't die at all and just left home.

I have a case of this in my own distant family, the descendants say she died but cannot produce a death. I know she went on to produce another family with another man and am in contact with the granddaughter of that union who has certs to prove it which I have copies of.

[Olde Crone]

That's the marriage I found as well - read my own writing as 1935 instead of 1939.

OC

[Merry]

Dec 1927 to Edward Morgan in Darlington 10a 61

This one is Frances A O'Neill and may well be this lady:


Births Sep 1892
O'Neill Frances Alice Darlington 10a 26

Sep1939 to Stephen Mcnaughton in Durham Co 10a 345

and ths one is Frances I O'Neill and may well be this one:

Births Dec 1918
O'Neill Frances I O'Neill Stockton 10a 89

[Olde Crone]

The O'Neill/McNaughten marriage has another name for Frances, so that Frances was twice married - seems unlikely.

OC

[JBee]

Will ask at the archives but don't think they'll be able to help as I think she may be going under another surname.

Did wonder if she met up with Edward's father and the family disapproved or met someone new but never married them just took their name and or even just emigrated.

I had something similar in my tree - found the son and mother but she'd not married the father as she was already married. He disappeared before the 1911 census never to be seen again but can't find a death for him. The son reckoned he'd left when he was a toddler and then when he was 9 but census said his mother was still married but a widow 5 years later!!??

Isn't anyone in the family you can ask - stories handed down - seems as though saying his mother had died was to stop awkward questions but he was old enough to know something wasn't right surely.