Mary Agnes and Rose Archer ......

[violetlover]

My cousin in California ordered the death certificate for my grandmother and it
arrived today. We had hoped that it might provide the name of the birth parents but only gave the names of the adoptive parents Evan Edwards and Anne Dwyer. Mary Agnes died June 5, 1960. Her death certificate states that she was born in England October 31, 1875.

[kiterunner]

That should be useful, although dates of birth on death certificates are not always accurate.

[violetlover]

Good morning,
Nearly two years ago you were all very helpful in providing some insight into the birth parents of Mary and Rose Archer. These were the sister that were shown to be in the orphanage in London, England in the 1881 census. In 1882 Mary and Rose were on the ship, Peruvian, bound for Canada. We knew that Mary was adopted by a couple in Ottawa, Evan Edwards and his wife, Anne Dwyer.
It has just been lately that I have found Rose. In the 1891 census we find that Rose (Rosie) is living with a family George and Maggie Meskell (Miskell) in
Renfrew North (Ontario). In the 1891 census she is listed as a domestic and is 11 years old. In 1901 Rose married Alexander Gavin McGregor and on the marriage certificate listed her parents as George Archer and Margaret Maloney. I have no idea where these names came from. The interesting part revolves around the death of Rose (October 23, 1959). I contacted the funeral home who made the arrangements for her burial and asked if they had any information on the birth parents of Rose. The funeral director replied "I can barely make out the writing, but it looks like her father's name was Aaron Archer and her mother was Fanny Halsey, both born in England." When I asked who would have provided this information I was told it was provided by her son, Campbell McGregor.
We had ruled out Aaron and Fanny as the birth parents of Mary and Rose and I am a loss as to where her son obtained this information. In 1959 when she died computer's were really not in use. I have to assume than that Rose herself provided the information to her son. I did contact the granddaughter of Rose and she was not cooperative at all.
Any thoughts at all?
Thank you.

[kiterunner]

It could be that Rose had given incorrect information to her son, or it could be that he had misremembered what she told him.

Oh, or it could be that he had tried to do some family tree research of his own and come up with the wrong names. I do seem to remember something similar on an Australian death certificate one time.

I'll see if I can find a George and Margaret couple though.

[kiterunner]

I will have to reread the thread as I can't remember all the details, but in the meantime, I don't know whether we ever saw Rose's marriage record before? This is what it says for her birthplace but I can't decipher it. Anyone? I note it doesn't say England after the town or county like some other entries on the page do, so maybe won't be any help. But if she gave an incorrect birthplace, she could have given incorrect parents' names too.

[kiterunner]

Ah, looking at post #2, Aron and Fanny still had their daughter Rose with them in 1891.

So my guess as to where their names came from for Rose's death cert is that either she or her son ordered a copy of her birth certificate from England, and the most likely one that the GRO could come up with was the one for the daughter of those parents, although it is not actually the right one for her.

[kiterunner]

The only trace I can find of a George Archer and Margaret Maloney couple so far is the names on Rose's marriage certificate.

There are a few possible birth regs for her under the surname Maloney or variants, but none of these can be her:
Rose Ann Moloney birth registered Oct-Dec 1878 Chorlton, Lancashire (Lancashire BMD shows this as Hulme sub-district but doesn't give mother's maiden name) - she is with parents Patrick and Bridget Ellen in Manchester on the 1881 census, so we can rule her out
Rose Ann Molloney birth registered Apr-Jun 1880 Liverpool - this one was buried 1 Apr 1881 Walton Park so can be ruled out
Rosina Mary Molony birth registered Apr-Jun 1880 Dover, Kent - this one was christened at St Lawrence, Kent, parents' names Charles Arthur Molony and Mary Emily Jane, and she is with them on the 1881 census, so we can rule her out too.

[kiterunner]

Oh, re-reading your post #103, I guess that Rose gave the names of her adoptive parents on her marriage but the father's surname was written down as Archer instead of Meskell.

Also, on the 1891 census, Rose's birthplace is given as Ontario but on the 1901 census it says England. Her "racial or tribal origin" is down as "Scotch" but this might not be significant.

[violetlover]

I really don't think the Miskell family actually adopted Rose. Apparently they had taken in a number of children through the years and as soon as they were old enough they left.
There are so many unanswered questions with this family and I did try and trace George Archer and Margaret Maloney. I did find a George Archer who resided in the same area of Renfrew as the Miskell family. According to the 1861 census (he was 16 at that time), his birthplace is listed as England, In 1876 he married Julia Maria Merrick and listed his birthplace as Wallingford, England. I can no connection to him and Margaret Maloney though. Again, there is a Margaret Maloney living in the same area as Miskell but there does not seem to be a connection.

At one point, and I can't find the record right now, I did find a Margaret Maloney as a pauper in England. That is really stretching the point though.
I'll see what else I might have. It seems rather odd that Rose would list George Archer and Margaret Maloney as parents on her marriage certificate. I can't find any connection at all with them and the family that took her in when she came from England.

The information on Aaron and Fanny Archer had to have come from some place and I doubt very much, given the education our grandmother, Mary, had that Rose would not have the where with all to contact England to get that information.

[kiterunner]

I don't think it is odd that Rose's marriage certificate says her parents were George Archer and Margaret Maloney - I expect she gave their names as George and Margaret (her foster parents, I accept that they didn't legally adopt her) and the official who filled in the form assumed that her father's surname was the same as hers and just asked for mother's maiden name. It isn't particularly unusual for the father's name on a marriage cert to be a stepfather, foster father, or just a made-up name. And it is pretty common for the father's surname to be erroneously written down the same as the bride or groom's when it should be different.

I have been trying to find a George Meskell / Margaret Maloney marriage to prove it (or George Meskell marrying a Maggie / Margaret with some other surname to disprove it, of course), but no luck yet! If they married in Ireland it may be hard to find though.