Elizabeth (Underhay?)

[Sue from Southend]

I know nothing about Elizabeth apart from where she died which was Yeovil, Somerset.
This information came from her son's widow's Poor Law record which I found on Origins.net
"11 Jan 1810 Deborah, w(idow) William Tomlinson of 23 Grays Inn Lane, shoemaker and Rebecca Underhayes re latter's settlement. DT aged 53 knew William Underhayes (dead) who was born in the Old Workhouse of Yeovil Somerset and Elizabeth Underhayes his mother died there at the birth and William later married Rebecca. Rebecca says she married at Christ Church London 10 Aug 1788 and has 4 children, Mary Underhayes 14, William Underhayes 11, Martha Underhayes 8 and Maria Underhayes 16 mos. William departed this life 10 Jan."

Her son William, was 50 at the time of burial according to the record but he was buried by the Parish so not entirely reliable but would put Elizabeth's death at c1760. I have seen this name written in many ways which doesn't help. William's burial is recorded as "Hunderrag"!

Link to her son, William - http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/f...lliam+underhay

[Shona]

The only thing that I could turn up was a marriage between Edward Underhay and Elizabeth Orsborn in Hennock, Devon, 1744 - Boyd's Marriage Index.

The name Underhay and variants is more common in Devon than Somerset, but Hennock a about 60 miles from Yeovil.

The info you have comes from Poor Law records. I wonder how truthful people were when applying for relief?

[Sue from Southend]

Yes, the name does seem to originate in Devon. Obviously I don't know but I got the impression that Elizabeth may have been unmarried when she gave birth to William. I'd have thought a father may have been mentioned if there was one around. But as you say there's no knowing whether they were being totally honest anyway!

[Phoenix]

If you were illegitimate, then your place of settlement was where you were born. If your parents were married, it would be the more complex issue of where your father had his place of settlement.

"He knoweth not" is the usual get out if you didn't want to be removed to the other side of the country. Born in the workhouse would be a claim which could be tested and acted upon. What happened to Rebecca? In theory, she could have been removed to Yeovil herself.

[Sue from Southend]

Well that's what I thought, too Phoenix. There's no trace of Rebecca in London after the Settlement Exam, but there is a Yeovil burial of a Rebecca Underhay in 1815 which I believe is on FMP. She would be about the right age but I don't know how to prove it one way or the other! There is also a burial for a Maria Underhays in 1810 in Yeovil but it doesn't give an age

However one of her daughters, Mary, was married in London in 1818 and another daughter Martha was married in London in 1838. Mary was 14 at the time of the Settlement Exam and Martha about 8yrs old. Would they have been left in London if Rebecca was shipped off to Yeovil? Or perhaps they went with her and came back later. Again I don't know how to find out apart from a long visit to Somerset Archives!

[Phoenix]

The three eldest could have been apprenticed out. Yeovil might have paid for this to happen in London so that the children could gain new settlements in their own right. Maria as a baby would have travelled with her mother.

Alternatively, the elder children might have slipped back to London at a later date because it was what they knew and where they reckoned they had a better chance of earning a living. You see some people continually being removed, but finding their way back to places where they had no settlement.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Phoenix. Your knowledge of the Poor Laws is brilliant! IF Yeovil had paid for London apprenticeships would they have been in Holborn (where the Settlement exam was from) or could they have been sent elsewhere? I ask because I've looked at the few Holborn apprenticeship records that exist on Ancestry with no luck but would like to know if it's a possiblity before I start trawling through other Parishes! Mind you, knowing my lot I'd probably find someone from my tree amongst them - I can't believe how many of my ancestors were in the Workhouse or receiving assistance

I wonder if part of the reason why so many of my ancestors came to Aus was due to fear of ending up in the workhouse.
Sponsored Migration had preference for a fit male between a certain age ... the reason why ages were often wrong .. up if the children were too young and down if the adults were considered too old .. So I don't think a widow with children would be considered.
I had a blacksmith in Bucks and an old lady in Cornwall who I think ended up in the infirmary ..
I am ashamed to say I understand very little about the poor law records .. I think your parish of birth had a responsibility for you if you couldn't look after yourself? Julie

[kiterunner]

Originally Posted by tenterfieldjulie

I am ashamed to say I understand very little about the poor law records .. I think your parish of birth had a responsibility for you if you couldn't look after yourself? Julie

It was your parish of settlement, which is why the settlement examinations. This was often your parish of birth, but settlement could be acquired by serving an apprenticeship or renting a house for at least 7 years in another parish. A woman lost her own settlement rights on marriage and acquired her husband's, which could mean that if her husband abandoned her she was sent to some place at the back of beyond where she had never been before! Well, or told she was to be sent there - people often disappeared before they could actually be "removed".

Thanks Kate, I remember a reference to removal and I wondered why. I have seen sojourner on marriages and thought it meant you were born in another parish, yet I know in one case she was born there, but maybe she then lived elsewhere and so the confusion. Women were certainly terribly vulnerable if they were abandoned.