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  #21  
Old 22-10-17, 12:30
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Just over a month ago I stood on the corner of Marshall Row in Brighton eating a pasty I bought in Greggs Bakery on the corner! It's about 50m from the supermarket where my son does his grocery shop now he's at Sussex Uni!

It's about five minutes walk from the two other addresses for your William Martin and family in Brighton.
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Old 22-10-17, 13:58
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I don't know where I'm going with this, but there is a marriage of a William Martin, father James Martin, to a Sarah Mann, father James Mann on 24 Sep 1838 at St Nicholas, Brighton.

I thought this could be William the possible son of James and Mary Martin who died in 1849. I hoped I could find him with Sarah in 1841 and thereby eliminate him from our search for the correct William.

Not that straightforward! lol

Having got nowhere looking for possible children for this William and Sarah, I gave up with that and tried some other combinations. I found a Sarah Martin, widow, father James Mann labourer, marrying at St Giles without Cripplegate in the city of London on 5th Feb 1846. The groom was bachelor, Josiah Watson a milkman, son of Josiah Watson, also a milkman.

Of course if this was the same Sarah who married Wm Martin and he was the one who died in 1849 then she was not yet a widow, but I can't stop myself from wondering if the William she was married to was the one potentially living with Elizabeth Berwick.

Anyway, I thought it might be easy to find Josiah and Sarah and probably eliminate them.....No such luck!
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Old 22-10-17, 16:13
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Well the mystery thickens!

I saw there were two likely Sarah Mann baptisms with father James in Sussex. One in Pulborough (25 Aug 1816) and the other in Hastings (12 Oct 1814).

I searched for Sarah Watson b Hastings in 1851 - nothing. Sarah Watson b Pulborough - Yes, and her husband is a dairyman from Water Stratford in Buckinghamshire aged 30. The 1841 census of Water Stratford shows a family headed by Josiah Watson, so that all ties together, EXCEPT Sarah's husband isn't called Josiah - he's called William Watson!!

A William Watson son of Josiah 'also' married at St Giles without Cripplegate in 1852 to Maria Streeter. He said he was a bachelor, but is he the same person who married Sarah Mann/Martin?

EDIT: Oooh! in 1851 there are two William Watson's almost the same age - the dairyman married to Sarah and the other one unmarried and a milk carrier. *feels headache coming on* lol

Anyway, it seems likely Sarah Mann from Pulborough married one of the William Martin's in Brighton and then, saying she was a widow (was she?), remarried in London. Was she the dau in law of James and Mary Martin of Marshall Row? and was it James and Mary's son who died in 1849? When did he and Sarah split up and was her William the partner of Elizabeth Berwick?
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Old 22-10-17, 16:35
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I think this Sarah is Sarah Mann (line 2):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...&usePUBJs=true

and this is her second marriage (goodness knows if the man is the same person!!):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

Here's the 'other' William who also says he's the son of Josiah:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

No sign of any of them after 1851!
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Old 22-10-17, 17:06
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PR transcriptions of Water Stratford:

These look like the two brothers whose marriages I posted in the previous post. The one who married Sarah was the right age to fit with the bap of Josiah, so maybe he just preferred the name William for the census?!! lol I think it must have been the younger brother who married Maria Streeter.

Bap 27 Aug 1820 Watson, Josiah father Josiah Labourer mother Rebecca

bap 19 Jun 1825 Watson, William father Josiah Labourer mother Rebecca
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Old 22-10-17, 20:59
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[QUOTE=Merry;342841]I think 'lied about everything' sounds a bit drastic! If they didn't actually marry, for whatever reason, all the lies that come after that would be pretty normal ones!

I'm not sure why you would think they would have had a marriage licence if William was under age? They wouldn't have needed one in order to marry - in normal circumstances the vicar would just have needed the word of a parent for consent.]

I don't know why I thought they should have had a licence to marry - maybe I have seen some before for under-age parties ? Never mind, it was just a hope.

I struggle with the idea that maybe they lied and concealed so much about their lives. All my other ancestors were mostly honest in their official record encounters (well, a couple altered their ages in the census, and great-grandmother Eccles was a bigamist).
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Old 22-10-17, 21:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry View Post
I don't know where I'm going with this, but there is a marriage of a William Martin, father James Martin, to a Sarah Mann, father James Mann on 24 Sep 1838 at St Nicholas, Brighton.
Thank you Merry for chasing all these Martins while I had a lovely time watching the musical Beautiful, the Carol King story !

These Martins/Manns seem as mysterious as my William and Elizabeth ! They are probably related somehow, as before the late 18th century, Brighthelmston was a very small town.

There is also a John Martin, born about 1800 who married Mary Ann Aiken (or Atkins or Akines, depending) who is a part of the LINN family I am also researching.

He may or may not be part of a set of triplets baptised in 1803.

I have never found very much on the Martins in Brighton and wonder if they were from somewhere else. Although my other families appear to go back more generations in the town.
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  #28  
Old 22-10-17, 21:50
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James Mann, the father of Sarah is still living in Pulborough in 1841. A few pages before him on the 1841 census is a Sarah Martin aged 24 living by herself.


Quote:
I struggle with the idea that maybe they lied and concealed so much about their lives. All my other ancestors were mostly honest in their official record encounters (well, a couple altered their ages in the census, and great-grandmother Eccles was a bigamist).
Well we don't know that many of these people are the right people! It's just a possible theory.
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  #29  
Old 22-10-17, 22:28
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If you were in the UK I would suggest you enquired about the 1849 death cert at Brighton Reg Office, but only purchased it if he had the right occupation, but I suppose that's not really possible from overseas?

register.office@brighton hove.gov.uk
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Old 23-10-17, 07:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry View Post
If you were in the UK I would suggest you enquired about the 1849 death cert at Brighton Reg Office, but only purchased it if he had the right occupation, but I suppose that's not really possible from overseas?

register.office@brighton hove.gov.uk
I can only ask. Could I ask them also to look for the William Martin - Elizabeth Berwick marriage, in case it did not make it to the GRO for some reason ?

Its the only other thing I can think of.

There's a William Duke - Elizabeth Berwick marriage which I wonder if it has been wrongly recorded for some reason. I can seem to find them easily in the 1841 census.
The Sussex Marriage index says William Duke, carpenter, Elizabeth a servant, married 25 Dec 1837 - I think I'd like a look at the register and the witnesses to see if there is an error in this one.
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