"Toxteth Park Reformatory" 9 & 11 Park Hill Rd

[Olde Crone]

In 1843 there are two Oliver Wilsons born in Lancs (LAncsbmd) but the one born Prston does indeed have MMN as Nightingale. (Other one is MMN Ball).

OC

[WendyLF]

OC, the other children that Merry mentioned in the 1851 census also tie up to mother maiden name Nightingale (the ages for Grace and Jane accidently swoped though), William also married Ellen Nightingale in 1843 (Also Lancs BMD), the year Oliver was born. Just wish I could say for certain it is her. Will have to see what the RO replies with regards the reformatory stay I suppose

[Merry]

I was bothered that the first Margaret was baptised just a short time before Oliver, but I wonder if she was born before the marriage and baptised just after? The marriage was Q1 1843 and Margaret's bap 16th Aptil 1843, Oliver was bap 3rd Sept 1843.

I just have not been certain that this is the correct Margaret as there are a number of them. So if this is the correct Margaret

This is bothering me as I only suggested this Margaret because she was the only one I could find. If you have found others then we need to eliminate them (or eliminate this one!!)

[WendyLF]

My gut tells me this is the right one, especially since she is the only one that comes up on Family search with father William, born Preston at about the correct time.
Just that when you to a search on LancsBMD there are a few Margaret's born in Preston around that time and who's to say she didn't lie (being sceptical after all the other white lies told by previous generations) also when her youngest son Joesph died she claimed he was her only support but her other son John (probably out of town..for a while i.e. until he died) was still alive.

[Olde Crone]

I am in my usual condition of confusion, but I can only see (on Lancsbmd) two Margarets with MMN Nightingale, one in 1850 and one in 1856. Can't see one at all in 1843 (or 42)?

OC

[WendyLF]

OC there is a Margaret 1843 but MMN is Ashworth so she probably belongs to another family as you said earlier the other Oliver's mothers MMN was Ball. Which means that Merry and my gut are probably correct......*she says hoping not to have to retract*

[Merry]

Can't see one at all in 1843 (or 42)?

No, but I bet if she was b before the marriage she probably wasn't registered!

Just that when you to a search on LancsBMD there are a few Margaret's born in Preston around that time

True, but not all of them would have been born "in" Preston, rather than just in the reg district, plus not all of those will have lived. Also, not all would have a father called William! I didn't try to sort out which was the right registration, I just looked at the 1861 and 1871 census for people who fitted.

[WendyLF]

Merry, I think she is the right one perhaps have Allan's granduer in my head from a previous post:

Originally Posted by garstonite

Hiya Wendy...sorry I haven`t posted , but I have been in Pontins with grandkids since Saturday....in case anyone is wondering Wendys ancestor Adelaide Sacht was the sister of my gg grandmother Sophia Sacht....now I know it is typical family rumour...but we were told as kids that the owner of Starways Airline based in Liverpool was a Wilson...and was somehow related...so your Wilson family member may be where they came into the family...I think they also owned another big company here in Garston...I will text my elder brother and see if he can remember...now to see if Wilson did own Starways...I can check for real with internet....back soon...
allan
added ...well the Wilson / Starways was true
http://starways.com/history.htm

As usual also impatient, so should see what info I can get from her stay at the reformatory....
BY THE WAY a bit late to ask, but what were the reformatories for i.e. are they like the ones today?

[Merry]

Oh, hang on.....

Lancs BMD:

WILSON Margaret Preston Preston TITHERINGTON PRES/22/57

FreeBMD:

Births Jun 1843
Wilson Margaret Preston 21 591

So the above registrations (they are the same one) could refer to the first Margaret because the parents are another Wm and Ellen!

Marriages Sep 1841
Bryce William Preston 21 374
EWBANKE Ann Preston 21 374
HULMES Margaret Preston 21 374
Parkinson Richard Preston 21 374
TAYLOR John Preston 21 374
Titterington Ellen Preston 21 374 <<<<<(misspelling??)
WILCOCKSON Ellen Preston 21 374
WILSON William Preston 21 374

there are birth regs with mmn Titterington and Titherington, so I don't know which is right!!

Anyway, it doesn't matter as long as they didn't have a living Margaret in 1855ish.

Have to go mix a cake with dau now......

[WendyLF]

LOL..at least that comes with a recipe....thanks again for all the assistance.