Genealogists' Forum - We have branches everywhere!



Go Back   Genealogists' Forum - We have branches everywhere! > Research > Research Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-11-19, 23:16
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

Rose Ray senr married John Henry Hall in 1902.
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-11-19, 23:27
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

So, another probable dead end - I had hoped there might be an obvious link between Kate Chatterley/Young and Rose Lowe as Kate's child was staying there rather than being in the workhouse.

Any sign of Samuel Chatterley in 1911?!!
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-11-19, 23:31
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,618
Default

What occupation did Samuel give on his children's baptisms?
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-11-19, 23:41
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

Labourer. Sorry!
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-11-19, 00:01
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,618
Default

Lol!
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-11-19, 10:45
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

Just re-posting this first part here to save reading back and then I am continuing with the can of worms underneath in case it's terrible weather where you are too and you need an excuse to stay inside! (Phoenix, if you read this, the longest paragraph below does mention the chance of Samuel being an engine fitter in 1914 if he is using an alias!). Sorry about the continuous switching between past and present tenses!

Looking for Samuel Chatterley in 1911. These are some of his details:

Samuel Frederick Chatterley birth reg Q1 1874 Daventry (b Weedon Northants)

1881 with parents
1891 not found
1901 Army barracks (in Hampshire? I forget), says born Birmingham, but I'm sure it's him - Birmingham is where he was brought up. His army record is on FMP which shows he signed up in 1893 and was discharged in 1905)
1911 no sign. I have checked the addresses given on his children's baptisms in 1904, 06 and 1910. Nothing to help.

I believe Samuel Chatterley and Kate Young moved to Exeter by 1912. A child was born there (Emily Chatterley) but she only lived one hour and was buried in Exeter Cemetery 18 Jul 1912 (newspaper report about cemetery burials).

I think the parents are Sam and Kate because:

1) the birth reg is Chatterley mmn Young and they are not the 'other' Chatterley/Young family as they are still in Birmingham having more children.

2) In 1913 and 1914 Sam and Kate's son Henry Vincent Chatterley (b 1910 in Birmingham) was registered at a school in Exeter. The family were living in Preston St Exeter which was a poor area. Samuel and Kate's other children (Frederick 1904 and Ivy 1906) don't seem to have come to Exeter. The only issue with Henry's school records is that his father is listed as Henry Chatterley, not Samuel.

Next comes a newspaper report- Taunton Courier, and Western Advertiser 09 September 1914

It's too long to type it all here but a couple called Henry and Kathleen Chatterley, no fixed abode, were brought up at the Taunton County Police Court charged with assaulting two men in Taunton on 7 Sept 1914. The details of the assault suggest Kathleen was at least as aggressive as her 'husband' and less remorseful after they were arrested, though she was discharged and he was fined in the end. The article states "P.S. Sweet said defendants had been in the town about three months. They had two children, one a baby and the other four years"

Now I hit the mystery! I'm pretty sure the four-year-old child above is Henry Vincent Chatterley. He definitely lived in the same house as these 'parents' during the 1920s and early 1930s in Taunton, as none of them were strangers to the courts so there are plenty of newspaper articles about them giving addresses.

After 1914 the father Henry (is he Samuel?) is generally called John Henry Chatterley. His army papers for WW1 survive. They state he is not married but his nok and dependent is Kathleen Rafferty (or Flatterly but not Young!). He lists his children with her, but the list doesn't include Henry Vincent Chatterley (the only child who was born in Birmingham with mmn Young - so, not Kathleen Rafferty's child or not John Henry's child or both?!). There are several birth registrations for Chatterley with mmn Rafferty the first being Rosie Chatterley registered Q1 1914 in Exeter (all others in Taunton) and who is presumably the baby in the newspaper report. Rosie was baptised in Exeter in Feb 1914 from a house in the same street as is mentioned in Henry Vincent Chatterley's school record. Rosie's parents are recorded as John Henry (engine fitter) and Kathleen Chatterley. The last entry in the school register for Henry Vincent Chatterley says 'left the city' in 1914.

Probably between 1920 and 1922 John Henry and Kathleen split up. Henry Vincent C probably stayed with Kathleen as he uses her address in court a couple of times in the early 1930s. Kathleen had several more children registered as Chatterley but the mmn is also Chatterley. Eventually she married Frederick Hodge in Taunton in 1928 (I guess it's likely he is the father of the post-1921 children as in the mid 1920s he and Kathleen were of the same abode in a court case) and had three more children Hodge mmn Chatterley, the last in 1933. Many of these children are in the Hodge household in 1939 but not Henry Vincent who may have been in the army.

John Henry Chatterley seems to have died in Bristol in 1936. He is not the birth reg in 1877 as that JHC had a different life and died after WW2.

Samuel C was born in 1874 and John Henry supposedly in about 1877. From their army records they were both the same height (5'6.5"), complexion (fresh) and eye colour (brown), but none of those are remarkable. Their hair colour is different, but John Henry was 41 and grey when his particulars were taken. There's about 25 years between the signatures on the army records and they are not especially similar!

So, is Samuel Frederick also John Henry? They are not the same age and JH doesn't acknowledge Henry Vincent as his son though he seems to have brought him up. Also are Kate Young and Kathleen Rafferty the same person? I have Kathleen's supposed dob from the 1939 Register (24 Feb 1889). Kate Young was recorded as 25 in 1911 (so b 1885/6). I don't feel they are one and the same, but could be. I could get Kathleen's marriage cert to Frederick Hodge to see if that helps, but it's a bit of a Schrodinger's cat thing where I feel if I get the cert I will be disappointed!

Samuel Frederick was born and did stuff up to 1912.

John Henry doesn't seem to exist until 1912. Neither of them had an official marriage.

Henry Vincent also never married. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have any reason to believe the two couples, Sam and Kate and John Henry and Kathleen, had anything to do with each other.

I can't find Kathleen Rafferty before 1912 and can't establish which Young Kate Chatterley is before 1911.

Your thoughts....
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-11-19, 11:18
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

Grrrr….

I found the burial record card for Emily Chatterley at Higher Cemetery Exeter. It doesn't give an address or anything else about her family. Her details are bur 18 Jul 1912 from St Matthews Parish. Interment number 34071 Section A Division 216 Number 29. There is an observations box which states See 28990.

This is a pdf document with no way to search it, and I don't know what name that entry might be under, except that it's not Chatterley! Across three cemeteries there are 100,000 burials and this Higher Cemetery is the biggest of the three. Very frustrating!! I suppose I could try Young and Rafferty etc....
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-11-19, 11:24
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

Quote:
I suppose I could try Young and Rafferty etc....
No match for 28990.
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-11-19, 12:33
Phoenix's Avatar
Phoenix Phoenix is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,618
Default

When Samuel signed up, he had four scars on the forehead.

I note his brother Arthur mentions (amongst others)two brothers as next of kin: Ernest and Joseph. Does this suggest that Samuel had moved on by that date? (Presumably in WW1)
__________________
The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-11-19, 12:54
Merry's Avatar
Merry Merry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Near Christchurch, Dorset
Posts: 21,265
Default

So, I'm looking for burial 28990

I have found:
Arthur Sharp 28981
Frank Swain 28982
Francis E Turner 28983
Mary A Ball 28985
Ann Parsons 28986
Elizabeth Collins 28988
Mary Ann Swash 28989

(from cross referencing the GRO index with the burial entries. I'm obviously almost in the right spot, but have to do something to eat now!)
__________________
Merry

"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:18.


Hosted by Photon IT

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 PL3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.