#11
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In 1881 the Grestys are living at 5 Mount Street:
Edward Gresty Head Mar 47 Maker Up Cotton Goods Lancashire Harpurhey Elizabeth J Do Wife Mar 46 Do Do John Do Son Mar 25 Painter Do Do Joseph Do Son Unm 21 Do Do Do Thomas Do Son Unm 18 Do Do Do Alice Ann Do Daur Unm 13 Scholar Do Do Elizabeth Do Daur 7 Do Do Do |
#12
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Christ Church, Harpurhey, burials:
Ellen Bell, Rochdale Road, age 75, Jul 4 1871 John Bell, Rochdale Road, age 73, Oct 23 1876 Elizabeth Jane Gresty, 5 Mount St, age 65, Sep 25 1900. |
#13
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The parish for Newby seems to be Dalston, but Joseph Todd was baptised at St Cuthbert, Carlisle. I'm not sure which parish to look at for the Bells' baptisms now.
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#14
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Oooh, thankyou Kate, this really looks very promising and no, I haven't been down this road before!
I have often wondered what brought Thomas Bell from Cumberland to Lancashire and it makes perfect sense that a Bell relative would apprentice him (or show him how to paint, lol). The Bells intermarried with the Whittakers and the Riddells, all painting families. I will look at this properly tonight when I will have time to concentrate but in the meantime, thankyou again. OC |
#15
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Goodness me, just found a reply I typed this morning but forgot to post!!!! (It was only to say that Rochdale Rd is a very long road indeed, over 1100 house numbers and that my Thomas Bell's children's names echo the names of John Bell's children. I know they are very common names, but still)
I've had a really good look at this and I am sure that Thomas Bell and John Bell are related in some way, probably nephew and uncle - Thomas Bell's mother being a sister of John Bell and Mary Bell perhaps. Also - the Grestys finish up at 5 Mount Street. Thomas Bell married from 7 Mount Street. Again, could just be coincidence but it is an enticing detail. Also - again maybe just coincidence - but one of Thomas's grandaughters marries a man named Worthington. I never followed that at the time because it was getting to be rather distant - I will look at that anew. George Bell, baptised 1825 whilst parents lived in Tinker Lane. My Garlick/Whittakers, also painters and plumbers lived in Tinker Lane at that time, so undoubtedly knew each other. Once again, thankyou so much for your help Kate. I had really given up any hope of getting any further with this. OC |
#16
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What you really need is images of the various Carlisle and Dalston parish registers, or full transcriptions, so you can see which Bells lived at Newby (assuming abode is shown pre-1813). I know Thomas may not have been born in Newby, but if we could find baptisms for John and Mary it should give us a clue as to who his mother was. But difficult to pick the right ones without a place of abode.
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#17
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I fiddled around a bit more last night and found Edward Gresty's parents were John and JANE. I couldn't find a marriage for them but wouldn't it be neat if she was Jane Bell!
I'll see if I can get the necessary films from LDS. It's years since I've been to my local LDS centre so I'll need to check their opening hours etc. OC |
#18
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What great research on this thread!
OC - Let us know how you get on if you get the films from the LDS.
__________________
Merry "Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010 |
#19
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Oh, looking at Mary Todd on the other censuses, I reckon you will need Cummersdale parish registers too. I think the Newby they come from is Newby West which is in Cummersdale parish, although it was listed as Dalston on the 1841 census.
Edit - never mind, I don't think Cummersdale is an actual parish. But it may say Cummersdale rather than Newby for abode in whatever register they turn up in. |
#20
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And having another look at the 1841 census, there is this family at the same Newby where the Todds are, just a few entries further on from the Todds:
Jane Bell 54 Farmer Y Jane Do 24 Y Robert Do 20 Y Elizabeth Do 9 Y George Bell 84 Ag Lab Y The description of the enumeration district is "All that part of the Township of Cummersdale laying to the West of the Highway from Dalston to Carlisle." (I was trying to do a global search on ancestry for Bells with keyword Newby and then pick out the Cumberland ones, but then I found out there are loads of places called Newby in Cumberland!) Now wondering whether George is John Bell's father and Thomas's grandfather... |
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