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  #1  
Old 30-04-22, 08:08
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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Default Help - DNA match and a Wingfield conundrum again

This another long story sorry, but I have put everything I know because I know it's frustrating to find stuff only to then find out I already knew or had it.

I have a DNA match on Ancestry of:
Shared DNA:*30 cM*across*2 segments
Unweighted shared DNA:*44 cM
Longest segment:*36 cM

I know it's low but I am interested because I think the match is a Wingfield and I have some mysteries of missing siblings, which I find so frustrating, of my 2nd Great Grandmother Emma Wingfield. Its the only name I recognise in the the tree of this DNA match.

Note: this possible match is named Emma Wingfield too, spelt Winfield on trees.

The children's relationship on the 1881 census is complicated because Pierce was married before which a lot of trees with this couple does not show and the ones I have looked at stop at Emma nothing before her marriage.

Emma married Pierce Patrick Driscoll in 1879. Pierce died in 1885

Marriage

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

Death of Pierce (father)

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...Y1MTMwMTcyOS4w

It was a Roman Catholic marriage, Pierce's heritage is Irish, no full cert online so I sent for the certificate to see what Emma put for father's name.

It has John Wingfield occupation; Provisions Dealer. Could be true, could be a lie. On census she says she was born in Dalston, Hackney, London in approx 1857. I cannot find a possible birth on the GRO, FreeBMD or Ancestry.

I worked out the daughter named Mary isn't Emma's daughter but Margaret and son Pierce is. Pierce was married before to Margaret Howey transcribed as Hewey on Ancestry.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource

Mary
DRISCOLL, MARY CATHERINE - HOWEY
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK
Volume 08B Page257

Margaret

DRISCOLL, MARGARET ELLEN - WINGFIELD
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK
Volume 01D Page 245

Pierce

DRISCOLL, PIERCE PATRICK - WINGFIELD
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 649

Emma married again after Pierce's death to Henry Moorhouse and Emma, Margaret and Pierce plus another daughter Adeline (birth reg below) emigrated to the USA. I think Mary may have died or married early on.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...Y1MTMwMzI5MC4w

Can't find full cert online will probably have to send for one but I will go to the Essex site to check so hold fire on that.
.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...;successSource')

MOORHOUSE, ADELINE CATHERINE -WINGFIELD
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 148

I can't find Emma before the 1879 marriage to Pierce a few possibilities in 1871 but birth place not London, servant, but up north which is possibly how she met him but more frustratingly I can't even find one in 1861 when she would have been too young to be on her own.

I was looking at a Emma Wingfield born in St Giles to a Hannah Murray plus another child Henry, but not sure at all about this. This Emma was illegitimate so that doesn't help.

MURRAY, EMMA -
GRO Reference:*1859 M Quarter in ST GILES & ST GEORGE Volume 01B Page 401

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...5f9239a7be2dc1

Thank you, if you want to ask something before you go of searching please let me.
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Old 30-04-22, 08:32
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So this is them in 1881?
Pierce Driscoll Head
Married Male 33 1848 Schoolmaster Poplar, Middlesex, England
Emma Driscoll Wife
Married Female 24 1857 - Dalston, Middlesex, England
Mary C Driscoll Daughter
Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Margaret E Driscoll Daughter
Single Female 0 1881 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
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Old 30-04-22, 08:40
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Do you have shared matches with other people with Wingfields in their trees? Or any other clues to suggest that Wingfield is the link?
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Old 30-04-22, 08:42
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Oh, and who were the witnesses on the certificate you do have? And can Emma write?
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Old 30-04-22, 09:09
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There is a John Wingfield who married an Emma Embelin in Stepney in 1857. Any chance tey might be the parents? The transcript is on Ancestry, but I can't see the original yet.
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Old 30-04-22, 09:14
ElizabethHerts ElizabethHerts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
There is a John Wingfield who married an Emma Embelin in Stepney in 1857. Any chance tey might be the parents? The transcript is on Ancestry, but I can't see the original yet.
Birth found for this couple:
WINGFIELD, JOHN HENRY EMBELIN
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 533

I'm still looking.
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Old 30-04-22, 09:17
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kiterunner kiterunner is offline
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There are a lot of missing bits of the 1861 census, so she could easily have been in one of those.
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Old 30-04-22, 09:18
ElizabethHerts ElizabethHerts is offline
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WINGFIELD, CHARLES REUBEN EMBELIN
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 495

WINGFIELD, WALTER EMBELIN
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 541

No daughters so far.
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Old 30-04-22, 09:26
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That John Wingfield is a bootmaker, so it may just be a tempting red herring.
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Old 30-04-22, 09:46
maggie_4_7 maggie_4_7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
So this is them in 1881?
Pierce Driscoll Head
Married Male 33 1848 Schoolmaster Poplar, Middlesex, England
Emma Driscoll Wife
Married Female 24 1857 - Dalston, Middlesex, England
Mary C Driscoll Daughter
Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Margaret E Driscoll Daughter
Single Female 0 1881 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Do you have shared matches with other people with Wingfields in their trees? Or any other clues to suggest that Wingfield is the link?
Difficult one, but the answer is yes but this person matches with two of my three closest matches one is my first cousin, my mum's sister's daughter. But they are so far down my tree that gives other possibilities. I am assuming the Sayer marriage to my Emma Wingfield is the connection to them.

This match matches with shared matches in the USA but they have only got as far as Emma on their trees like the first match. Which is why I think Emma Wingfield is the connection.

However this person matches some people in Australia.

Now these people, that have trees, from what I can see without closer inspection don't have Wingfields in their direct ancestor line but I will have to have a closer look. I do have very low matches, which I won't see even if they do match with first DNA because of the low match, in Australia from two women/sisters that were transported at different times for the same offence currency fraud a gang of them in fact.

Jane Wingfield and her older sister Elizabeth Wingfield who were, from my research, my 3rd Great Grandfather Daniel Wingfield's younger sisters, confusion there too because I think they had a different mother, both named Jane so only half sisters which might account for the low matches.

Jane (married a George Fieldhouse) and Elizabeth (Married first Edward Clouder and the second John Barter) but they are so low matches they don't match with first DNA match but one of them matches with and is managed by the person who does match first DNA match who doesn't seem to Wingfield in his tree. Both women died young in their 30s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Oh, and who were the witnesses on the certificate you do have? And can Emma write?
Witnesses Louise Fleming and John Barton there is a correction on Louisa's surname can't read it but looks it was a spelling mistake.

I don't know if she could write because all the certificate looks like the same handwriting and it's very good and no X marks the spot on the Groom, Bride or witnesses.
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