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  #21  
Old 17-05-22, 09:12
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I found another thread suggesting TJ Watts may have died between 1861 and 1871. The only match for that is a fair bit older than Sarah:

WATTS, THOMAS JOHN 53
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 316

but of course this might not be him! If he was registered without his middle name he would be lost in a crowd! Also, Sarah may have just said she was a widow in 1871 because she hadn't heard from her husband in years.

A lot of sites are reputed to have the images of marriages for All Saints Wandsworth where Sarah and TJ married in 1854, but I've not found anything. If we knew his occupation and father's details we might be able to confirm if this death is the right one. It would also be useful to see what Sarah said about her father this time.
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Old 17-05-22, 09:21
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If Sarah and TJ had children they did not make it to a census.

Sarah Jnr on the census':

1841 census

1851 census

1861 census

1871 census

1881 census

1891 census

1901 census

Sarah Williams marriage to John Browning
Sarah Williams

I haven't been able to find a marriage for Sarah Browning to John Bridges.
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  #23  
Old 17-05-22, 09:51
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If there was a Browning/Bridges marriage it would probably be before civil registration started in Jul 1837 as Francis Bridges was bap June 1837.

Those three Browning children bap together in 1835 - do you know how old the youngest was?
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  #24  
Old 17-05-22, 11:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry View Post
I don't know whether Toni knows what happened to Richard (the one aged 14 in 1841)?
He married Esther Sharp in 1853 and was a mariner. I can't find either of them after that.

He is not the Richard who married Martha Potter and is a sea captain, in the 1870's (I think). That Richard was born in Somerset.

Frederick may have married in 1859 but his father was a copper ___. I can't read it but it is not like a butcher so I'm not sure.
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  #25  
Old 17-05-22, 12:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry View Post
If there was a Browning/Bridges marriage it would probably be before civil registration started in Jul 1837 as Francis Bridges was bap June 1837.

Those three Browning children bap together in 1835 - do you know how old the youngest was?
Richard was born 1827, Sarah 1830 and Frederick 1833.

I've searched the London marriages and Westminster marriages before 1837 but can't find anything. I really can't see Sarah fitting another marriage in between the 1835 baptism and the Jan 1837 birth of Francis.
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  #26  
Old 18-05-22, 09:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit View Post
He married Esther Sharp in 1853 and was a mariner. I can't find either of them after that.

Frederick may have married in 1859 but his father was a copper ___. I can't read it but it is not like a butcher so I'm not sure.
The copper thing is copper smith, so unlikely to be the butcher.

Re Richard Browning and Esther Sharp, I did find this birth reg. The only one with these surnames in the first 10 years after the 1853 marriage.

BROWNING, FREDERICK ARTHUR mmn SHARP
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in POPLAR UNION Volume 01C Page 658

I spent ages looking for him anywhere else and got nowhere. That led me to look for Esther Sharp so I could get a better idea for search criteria.

This looks like the baptism of Esther:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...a3&pId=1846702

bap 25 Dec 1833 born 31 Jul 1830 bap St Matthew, Bethnal Green father James a weaver, mother Elizabeth.

In 1841 she is 11 living with her parents in Bethnal Green. In 1851 there are two Esther Sharp(e)s, born Shoreditch, one aged 21 and the other 19. Both servants away from home.

Having done that I then found:

BROWNING, ESTHER 25
GRO Reference: 1856 J Quarter in CLERKENWELL Volume 01B Page 338

So, the 1859 birth for Frederick A Browning looks like a red herring, unless Richard had a relationship with Esther's sister, or something!
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  #27  
Old 18-05-22, 10:33
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Actually, re the son of the copper smith, if that isn't your Frederick he fits very well, other than his father's occupation.

1861 census:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...rn&pId=5879734

I can't find any evidence of there being two Frederick Brownings from this part of London b about 1833.

To prove it's the same couple as in the 1859 marriage:

BROWNING, RICHARD mmn MIDDLEYARD
GRO Reference: 1861 M Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 545

EDIT: having said all that, he muddies the waters by giving his birthplace as East Ham Essex in 1871 and Sussex in 1881, but I still can't find a Frederick Browning on the 1841 ot 1851 census who looks likely to have been born in either of those places. Of course naming his first son Richard (for his brother?) is hopeful because it wasn't a hugely common first name at that time. Susannah is a widow in 1891.
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Old 18-05-22, 10:54
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Part of the reason I sort of feel Frederick who married in 1859 could be mine is his place of address - Colchester St. It is an address the Bridges were living in 1851. Sarah (mum) is living elsewhere in 1861.

I wish I could read the name of the first witness, see if it helped.
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  #29  
Old 18-05-22, 11:20
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John Browning had 2 occupations - butcher on his children's baptisms and Richard's wedding certificate and foreman in docks on Sarah Jrs marriage cert. So Frederick's father's occupation could feasibly be something different.

I'll see if I can find John's death
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  #30  
Old 18-05-22, 11:35
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Before I look at that marriage cert again, I just been to say this before I forget...

The Richard sea captain who married Martha the widow and said his father was Joh dec'd, no occupation..... I wondered if his first marriage was the one in 1848 to Harriet Chidgey where Richard was a mariner and his father was John a blacksmith? I was just thinking blacksmith and copper smith are not the same, but I suppose we would need to check whether there are both the same groom and if they are, whether this twice married Richard didn't have a younger relative called Frederick who mght have named his son for the sea captain.

Anyway, I will look at that witness....
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