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  #1  
Old 25-11-11, 01:04
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Janet Janet is offline
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Default MFMFFM Mary [Hargreaves??]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Mary [possibly Hargreaves but I don't necessarily believe it]

Date and place of birth possibly about 1749 place unknown

Names of parents unknown

Date and place of baptism - if applicable unknown

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any

Possibly:
Marriage to John Pickles
12 Jul 1781
Age: 32
Kildwick, Yorkshire


Occupation(s) - if any

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
Cowling, Yorkshire

Date, place and cause of death

Possibly:
6 Nov 1822
Age: 73
Cowling, Yorkshire
Cause unknown.


Date and place of burial. Unknown

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable Unknown, probably unlikely

Memorial inscription - if any Unknown

I'm putting this up mainly to be a place marker for future research because I'm having trouble figuring out who's who and I still have to buy a bunch of cert's.

I know my MF Walter Pickles Berry. ==> have birth cert and marriage cert
I know my MFM Emma Berry nee Pickles. ==> have birth cert, marriage cert and death cert
I know my MFMF Robert Pickles (per Emma's birth and marriage cert's). ==> bap. 9 July 1820 (Kildwick PR), need certs for 2 marriages and death (buried 2 Dec 1878, Kildwick PR)
I am pretty certain of my MFMFF David Pickles. ==> must get cert's
(Robert Pickles' first child is named David, presumably after his grandfather.)

I think my MFMFF's parents might be John and Mary Pickles.
There is a tree on ancestry that says so, but I would need to prove it.
They have:
John Pickles
Birth 1756 in Cowling, Yorkshire

12 Jul 1781
Age: 25
Marriage to Mary Hargreaves
Kildwick, Yorkshire

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/307...07543461?ssrc=


and

Mary Hargreaves

Birth 1749

Marriage to John Pickles
12 Jul 1781
Age: 32
Kildwick, Yorkshire

Death
6 Nov 1822
Age: 73
Cowling, Yorkshire

============================
Source:
Yorkshire, England, Extracted Parish Records about Mary William Hargreaves Elizabeth
Text: 07 Jun 1767 Mary Daughter of William Hargreaves of Cowling Weaver & Elizabeth his Wife
Book: Volume 7, 1744-1771.
Collection: Yorkshire: Kildwick - Parish Registers (Christenings, Marriages & Burials), 1744-1799

==============================

On another thread, Elizabeth found this marriage, same date as above:
Groom's Name: John Pighels
Bride's Name: Mary Hargreaves
Marriage Date: 12 Jul 1781
Marriage Place: Kildwick,York,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01001-4
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 919148
Reference Number:

Now is when I start to have trouble, because the name is spelled Pickles in one place and Pighels in another place, all for the same marriage.

Worse yet, there seem to be two couples having children in Cowling in the same period of time:
John and Mary Pickles have a child born 30.11.1782
John and Mary Pighels have a child born 29.12.1782

So definitely two childbearing families, maybe one mine and the other not, but how can I tell the difference?

I would like to think the John and Mary Pickles who baptize their children Dinah b. 30.11.1782, Hannah b. 20.1.1785 and David b. 3.10.1787 in batch on 18.9.1792 are my family.

==================================

Plan of action:
I need to get Robert Pickles' certificate for his second marriage, the one that produced my MFM Emma.
If that points to father David Pickles, then I will get David Pickles and Martha Shackleton's marriage certificate.
And if that points to father John Pickles, then I'm back to scratching my head on how to prove which John he is, and how to establish his wife (Mary?)'s identity.

Robert Pickles' probable marriages are here:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/F...?t=9264&page=2
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  #2  
Old 02-09-16, 10:05
Karen Shearer Karen Shearer is offline
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Hi long distant cousin Janet,

I know this post was some time ago but there may be some more info to confuse the issue.....
Mary Hargreaves is listed in the Craven Indexes St Andrews Kildwick as a widow. So it will be her married name that will appear on the marriage register.
I then went hunting in the Parish Registers for a Mary who married a Hargreaves to find a James Hargreaves who married a Mary BAXTER 10.1.1770 daughter of John Baxter and Mary WILSON christened 30.7.1749.
James Hargreaves dies in 3.3.1781 having had 4 children John 23.2.1772, Stephen 11.12.1774, James 9.2.1777.and Mary 13.1.1779 - 14.3.1779
Mary was listed as a weaver when she married James Hargreaves

Mary then marries John Pighels/Pickles 12.7.1781

So this is a possibility for our Mary Hargreaves?? Any thoughts?

The Source used here may then be incorrect as it would have Mary being married to John when she was 14 ( a minor) if the 7 Jun 1767 birth date is correct.

Source:
Yorkshire, England, Extracted Parish Records about Mary William Hargreaves Elizabeth
Text: 07 Jun 1767 Mary Daughter of William Hargreaves of Cowling Weaver & Elizabeth his Wife
Book: Volume 7, 1744-1771.
Collection: Yorkshire: Kildwick - Parish Registers (Christenings, Marriages & Burials), 1744-1799
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Old 02-09-16, 18:58
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Hi Karen! Egads, I posted this thread 5 years ago. Trying to resurrect the memory cells. Lol.

Believe it or not, I was staring at the Craven Indexes just this morning, wondering what I've missed. And then you turn up, right on cue.

Heading out for a Friday fish fry on the shores of Lake Ontario this very moment, but I will return and then I'm all ears. You might even be awake on your Saturday morning by that time. Thanks!
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Old 03-09-16, 05:12
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Karen, this is coming back into focus now. I do need to fill in the intervening generation, i.e., Robert Pickles' father David, if I hope to get help from some of the healthy skeptics on this forum. From that David I can then move on to sketch in David's father and mother, John and Mary (the subject of this thread). I have the memorial inscriptions from Kildwick to help with that.

I did look at the Craven Indexes. The Pickles gravestone in Kildwick says Mary wife of John Pickles died 3.11.1822 aged 74 years, making her born about 1748 if she's not lying. So there's probably a good chance you might be right about the 10 July 1770 marriage of Mary Baxter to James Hargreaves. The only other possible marriage I found for a Mary marrying a Hargreaves in the Craven Indexes was from 1759. I'd like to look at it some more when I'm not falling asleep. If she married exceptionally young, or if she was knocking some years off her age in later years, then this Mary Ellison who married Peter Hargreaves could be our ancestor.

DD MM YYYY Groom Surname First Name Residence Occupation Status Bride Surname First Name Residence Status Consent
10 7 1770 HARGREAVES James Cowling Weaver Bach BAXTER Mary Cowling Spin
9 8 1759 HARGREAVES Peter Cowling Weaver Wid ELLISON Mary Cowling minor consent of her father James of Cowling

These and more might be found on Ancestry and/or FindMyPast, but I'm afriad I can't even begin to think about that right now. The cuckoo has just struck midnight. My weekend might turn out to be rather busy but I'll come back to this as soon as I can.
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Old 03-09-16, 08:32
Karen Shearer Karen Shearer is offline
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Hi Janet,
The marriage certificates of Robert Pickles to Ann Emmott and Nancy Harker(Ann Emmott)both have David Pickles as the father of Robert if that is the evidence you need for the intervening generation. I have copies of these certificates.
What is the source you used for the memorial inscriptions from Kildwick? I have been to Kildwick in 2011 and many of the stones have been removed particularly along the pathway from the road.
I think I might have discounted the Peter Hargreaves 1759 as a possibility as that would have made our Mary a very minor minor if the 1748 birth was correct !!
Oh the possibilities !!
Looking forward to your thoughts
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Old 07-09-16, 04:51
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Sorry, Karen, I didn't see until today that you had posted again. It's been the long Labor Day weekend here, and a very busy one for me.

What I am attempting to do with David Pickles is to fill in as nearly a complete template as possible with his vital statistics, such as you see in post #1 here for Mary [Hargreaves?]. I have a separate thread for him, a very early one for me, that is shot through with errors. I've been working on it last night and earlier today and I may post that shortly if I don't fall asleep over my keyboard. Don't worry, I have no doubt now that David Pickles and Martha Shackleton are the parents of our Robert Pickles. It's just that others on the forum who have very helpfully lent a hand will want to see how we got here from there. It helps to have the data readily available.

The memorial inscriptions are from our cousin Alison in England who emailed me that
"The Pickles grave is [...] up against the church wall. [...] The writing on the grave was only just legible.

"The inscription is as follows: in Memory of Mary, wife of John Pickles of Cowling, who departed this life 3.11.1822 aged 74 years. Also of the above named John Pickles who departed this life 15.11.1829 aged 66 years.

"Also David Pickles, son of the above, who died 22.11.1829 aged 54.also Martha his widow who died 1845 aged 54 years. Also Ann, wife of Robert Pickles who died May 11th 1845 aged 23 years. Also the said Robert Pickles who died 28.11.1878 aged 59."
(I'm not sure where the error in the year of death for John's son David crept in. It should be 1841.)

Let's not discount Peter Hargreaves just yet. Stranger things have happened.

That's it, I'm too cross-eyed to continue. I'll try to post my new David Pickles materials promptly. (Just not tonight!)
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Last edited by Janet; 08-09-16 at 02:27. Reason: just not tonight
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Old 21-09-16, 04:53
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Karen, I see your light on. I've not forgotten about this thread! Life has been a bit challenging of late, but I started back into this subject today and hope to be posting soon.
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