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#1
04-11-23, 14:12
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Uncle Jim's second wife
James Edgar Riley, to the surprise of my family, married in 1973 Elsie E Birch in Portsmouth. This was Elsie's third marriage.
Elsie E Keen had married John T Birch in September 1954 in Portsmouth Elsie E McCarthy had married Sydney Keen September 1922 in Portsmouth Here is Elsie with her first husband and only son, Victor in 1939 in Rugby: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...99B%2F004%2F10 Elsie was born 7 May 1898 in Portsmouth. She spent much of her early married life in Rugby, but when Sydney fell ill, they returned to Portsmouth. Sydney died 16 September 1953: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource I have struggled to find out anything about John Birch. He cannot be the John Joseph T Birch b 1901: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/reco...50H%2F007%2F33 as he died in 1951 He was possibly the John Thomas Birch b 1897 in Burton, Staffs who signed up for the Royal Navy in Portsmouth in 1916:https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource This man may well have gone into the Merchant Navy as I can't find him on censuses. Nor can I find his death. Ideas, anyone?
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The chestnuts cast their flambeaux Last edited by Phoenix; 04-11-23 at 14:18. 
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#2
04-11-23, 14:32
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This looks like a probate record for your John Birch
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=14610710 Apologies if you have this...
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Sue
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#4
04-11-23, 15:05
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The probate entry for this man:
Deaths Jun 1962 BIRCH John T 72 York 2d 798 ....says his widow was called Elsie Edith Birch, so could be the one?
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"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#5
04-11-23, 15:06
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lol Should have looked to see if anyone else had posted whilst I was making a cup of tea!
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"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#6
04-11-23, 18:17
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There are a few John Thomas Birch births about the right time.
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#7
04-11-23, 21:04
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Jim worked on the railways. There is a John Thomas Birch who worked for LNER as a sawyer. He married Florence Isabella Fairclough who died in 1947. He appears in lots of Ancestry trees which show him as dying in York in 1962. None of the trees appear to show Elsie - though I can't imagine anyone would have expected a second marriage in Portsmouth.
Although both Jim and his first wife were blood relations, Elsie obviously wasn't. The family didn't approve of her - but largely because they seem to have felt he should have remained a widower all his days. The connection is too distant to justify acquiring the certificate for her second marriage, but I'd be fascinated to know how she and John Birch met - and whether his family approved of her!
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The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
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#8
04-11-23, 21:10
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Isn't it most likely to be this man? (born 13 Feb 1890):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=23765722 Births Mar 1890 Birch John Thomas Bramley 9b 399 His wife in 1939 sees to have died in 1947: Deaths Jun 1947 Birch Florence I 58 Leeds 2c 337
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"Something has been filled in that I didn't know was blank" Matthew Broderick WDYTYA? March 2010
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#10
05-11-23, 08:30
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But only because you and Sue spotted that probate entry. And this sort of research would have been impossible before the 1921 census and the 1939 Register came online.
My grandparents lived in a 2up - 2down in Portsmouth for most of their married life. For a woman to travel so widely - and of course I have no idea what she did in the ten years between her second and third husbands - just didn't cross my mind.
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The chestnuts cast their flambeaux
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