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  #41  
Old 21-03-11, 00:40
Ammanda Schutz's Avatar
Ammanda Schutz Ammanda Schutz is offline
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Tell me about it. Down the garden path and back again. I am such a believing soul, gullible is probably a better word, that I have had to be burned really badly to learn the lesson.
Julie knows him and he probably will be at the reunion in April so she can talk to him first hand. However, I take your point. If I can find an email address I will whisk one off.
I sound confident but some folk don't like their research challenged so I have to tread carefully especially as this is the 'definitive' work on the McCrohons.
The good thing about the family is that the name is uncommon. The rotten part is that it is spelled in every conceivable way and then some.
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  #42  
Old 21-03-11, 02:10
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Thanks Ammanda...................not sourced at all really is it???

The index list is just that...I'd like to see some certs and PRs before I'd say anything.

So John and Amelia marry in 1818...........where was that supposed to be??? If John was in the army, why didn't he need permissiom to marry??? And if he did marry without permission, wasn't he supposed to re-marry??

Has anyone found his actual records??? That should have exactly where he was and when.

There's a 9 year gap between the marriage and the first child. Not sure of the significance of that yet....

A lot of the historical parts are general history. I've got very similar in my book on the Moores from Ireland.

I'll print it out and highlight the parts I'm not sure about I think the I might get a better idea.
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  #43  
Old 21-03-11, 02:56
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Ammanda Schutz Ammanda Schutz is offline
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Well, you have hit upon some of the issues and in short order.
We have his complete military record and can trace him from his earliest date in Ceuta.
I think he chose the 1818 because it was at the end of the time that John was in France with the occupation army. However, the rest doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't she go with him to the West Indies? If she was outcast from her family where else would she go?
If the other marriage, Emily Banham, is anything to go by they started having children right away, as any Catholic couple would. Well, not just Catholic at that time. I think Emily had 9 children with John so there was no time to waste.
I had thought that if Emily DuCroix was on one of the French Islands in the Caribbean, after all they French had lost the war and control of their islands, at least nominally, then he could have met and married her there. I found no records to that end.
When the record in Winchester came to light I thought it more than probable. All the elements fit; John was at Chatham after returning from the West Indies and in between being sent back to Portugal. Their first child was born in Portugal in just over a year.
Also, even if Emily Banham was a widow and DuCroix was her maiden name, as the daughter of 'some high official' wouldn't she be educated. She could not sign her name on the register but marked it with an X.
I also wonder how John got to Ceuta? He was obviously educated, could read and write and was a Quarter Master Sergeant. Maybe his father was already in the Military and the reference Julie found to a John McCrohon in the East Kent 3rd Regiment may be right on. The 3rd fought in Spain and Portugal during the war with Napoleon and perhaps his son was with him. Perhaps at Gibraltar just across from Ceuta. Ceuta is still a Spanish enclave in Morocco and was always an occupied military port.
Well, I am raving now. Off to bed.
Thanks for taking a look.
The
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  #44  
Old 21-03-11, 03:51
tenterfieldjulie
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Most of "MS" "History of the McCrohon Family in Australia" is I believe based on documentation, but the sources are not quoted. (He refers to study at State Librariers, LDS, State Archives etc) The part about the runaway marriage is I think is a family story, how they supposedly met her in France and had a runaway marriage. We know now that John McCrohon, 4th Foot, married a Emily Banham at St. Thomas Winchester 23 June 1826 (have copy of the marriage registration). Their son John was supposedly born in Portugal 25 July 1827 according to MS, which would fit with the marriage. Whether the birth information was recorded in a Family Bible, we hope to find out. We have the TNA records of John's Military Records - when, where he joined 4th Foot etc, his ranks and times and places of service, including seven years in West Indies. Some of this MS seems to refer to, but I can see some errors in assumption. I think it would be better to speak to MS privately. I think he is an older person who did this out of respect for an elderly uncle who was related to him by marriage. He has very generously made this information available with no copyright claimed and fair use for non-profit purposes is permitted. His History comprises over 40 pages and so there is a lot of time and effort put into the McCrohon story.
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  #45  
Old 21-03-11, 04:03
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I think talking to him about his sources would be a good idea Julie. Getting info from LDS is a bit dodgy unless you see the actual film. I must admit to not know about submitted entries when i started this lark and that gave me all sorts of trouble.

I've also got bad info from the State Library by using others' trees and stories. One has a bit of wrong info and the next embellishes it and it goes on.

I wonder if the Ducroix story was along the lines of a tryst rather than an actual marriage. Those things can grow legs if people start talking.....lol.

I don't think Amelia DuCroix and Emily Banham are the same person. Of course I can't prove that but there are many things pointing that way.

My ggg grandfather's marriage of 1818 is documented in his records. He was a sergeant at the time. The records also tell when he took leave etc. Although he was in the WI and other places, he managed to get home to 'pro-create' every couple of years.

Maybe if you tell him, you've been trying to find certain records and ask if he'd help you, at least you'll know where he got them from.
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  #46  
Old 21-03-11, 04:35
tenterfieldjulie
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Well I found my buried records.
Death Registration of John McCrohon 20 June 1900 at Tingha NSW Born Portugal in Aust 58 years, Parents John McCrohon Quartermaster Sergeant in the army, Mother Emily Ducroi (x, more like t, possibly c). When this John's son (another John died) his obit said he was the son of Mr. & Mrs. Patrick McCrohon who had migrated to Australia from Ireland.
Then the youngest child of John and Emily - Louis Estall died 3 May 1924 parents John McCrohon Miner and Agnes Decrow? (informant his son)
No wonder things are confused...
I.M. another researcher says in 2000: John - Born St. John's Parish, Limerick July 1795, Brother William born Jan 1807 Crondon Park, Essex. John christened son of John and Margaret Crondon Park Rc 1 March 1807. Military Service - Returned Winchester 1 April 1826. Emily Ducroix Born France ca 1800 Seamstressi n Parish at time of British occupation 1816. First marriage to - Banham? John and Emily married 23 June 1826 at St. Thomas Rc Winchester.
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  #47  
Old 21-03-11, 13:23
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Ammanda Schutz Ammanda Schutz is offline
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My head is swimming! Lots of information and I wonder where it leads.
Thanks for digging it out of the coffins Julie. lol
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