Calling Olde Crone! Calling Olde Crone!

[Merry]

I wonder why Joseph didn't marry Ellen?

Well, if he was one of those two bricklayers, because he already had a wife!

[Merry]

The younger bricklayer (Joseph Whittaker of Crumpsall) was made bankrupt in Dec 1862 (FMP newpapers)

[Merry]

If Joseph junior was the father, then his wife was pregnant when the Sept 1854 baptism took place at the cathedral. His dau, Josina Ann Whittaker was reg Q4 1854 and baptised in Jan 1855 at St Mark's Cheetham.

Joseph and Ann (nee Cartwright)'s first child, Emily Harrison Whittaker, was bap at the cathedral in 1847. They said their abode was Cheetham Hill and Joseph a bricklayer. The ceremony was performed by the same person who baptised Joseph seven years later!

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Merry

I'm not too clear on where Manchester cathedral is (where Jos was baptised), but I'm guessing maybe either Deansgate or Market Street sub-districts? I presume therefore, that the baby was brought to the 'no questions asked' busy cathedral rather than the local parish church for a reason?!

I'm not hot on Manchester, but I think that Manchester was a place that grew like Topsy, with the parish church covering quite a large area. It subsequently became a cathedral, which is what it would have been when the Mormons filmed the records, but not what it would have been when these events took place.

[Olde Crone]

Ah, that makes sense, lol. Same story as James Holden, his father married the one who got pregnant first.

I was born in Crumpsall, we lived in Blackley and our phone number was Cheetham Hill, so yes, all very close together. Yes, Manchester Cathedral asked no embarrassing questions, so that circumvented the lack of a husband, lol.

OC

[Phoenix]

Became a cathedral in 1847. Lots of chapels of ease, but according to wikipedia, you paid two sets of fees if you married in a chapel, so it was cheaper to marry in the cathedral. May have led people automatically to do baptisms there too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Cathedral

[Merry]

Same story as James Holden, his father married the one who got pregnant first.

Now quite! Joseph jr (ie the one similar age to your Ellen) was married in 1845 and had several children with his wife by the time Joseph was born. I was just commenting both women were pregnant at roughly the same time in case anyone cared really!

[Merry]

He didn't manage a son with his wife until 1861 and that boy was named Joseph Henry.

I find myself assuming he is the father of your Joseph now. Should keep a more open mind!

[Olde Crone]

Manchester Cathedral, and the church it was before it became a Cathedral, was a "peculiar" - it reported directly to the monarch and did not have the same rules and restrictions as the established church. This made it a very appealing venue for any scallywag or just those in a hurry, lol. It performed free marriages and free baptisms at various times of the year - Easter and Christmas especially.

Ellen's mother and sister lived in Ardwick, Manchester, Oldham was 8 miles away, so not an impossible journey even back then. My proven Whittakers lived in Harpurhey and Blackley and Oldham. It would be so neat if they were all related, lol.

Merry, I am pencilling in this information on my tree because as it stands, it is convincing and until it is proved otherwise, I am convinced! I remember getting to this stage many years ago with James Holden, being convinced I knew who his father was but just needing one last bit of evidence - and you provided it that time too! I thank you so much for your continued interest in my ramshackle family, lol.

OC

[Merry]

lol OC, you are welcome! If I look for someone else I don't have to do all that boring recording of the info!!