Advise /Guidance needed finding Irish relative - Genealogists' Forum

Cooper70 · #1 17-12-20, 22:26

I have unfortunately come to bit of a brick wall, with tracing my Grandmother
Mary Kathleen Kelly, I have traced back to 1901 Census living with parents and siblings in Liverpool (surname on Census spelt Kelley) but that is as far back as I am able to go, I believe that she was born in Dublin 10th February 1889, Father John Kelly, mother Mary ?
I have no further information other than some sibling names, found on the census. If any one has any suggestions on where to look for further info I would be very grateful.
thank you for any help much appreciated
Pauline

kiterunner · #2 17-12-20, 22:39

Welcome to the forum, Pauline.
For our reference, this is the 1901 census entry (or if not, please let us know!)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=33758868

10 Court, 3 House, Tatlock Street, Liverpool
John Kelley Head M 47 Labourer in Distillery Ireland
Mary Do Wife M 45 Do
Agnes Do Daur S 16 Worker in Factory Ireland
John Do Son S 14 Do Do
Mary Do Daur S 12 Do
Joseph Do Son 9 Do
Patrick Do Do 6 Lancs Liverpool

Maybe we can find Patrick's birth reg to get Mary sr's maiden name, but of course there are going to be a lot of Patrick Kell(e)ys around! I had a look for them on the 1911 census but I think the family is split up by then; perhaps the parents had died between 1901 and 1911?

kiterunner · #3 17-12-20, 22:59

I have had a quick look on the Irish Civil Records site and not found a birth record matching the details you have for Mary, but have to stop for the night now.

Cooper70 · #4 17-12-20, 23:08

Hi
yes the 1901 details are correct, I did find her on the 1911 census in New Brighton occupation Domestic servant. Mary married in 1914 and marriage cert shows father deceased.
Tring to find the right John Kelly in Liverpool between these dates is impossible.

ElizabethHerts · #5 18-12-20, 07:57

I notice that the last child, Patrick, aged 6, was born in Liverpool.

There is a baptism for a Patrick Kelly in Liverpool, parents John and Mary, in 1895.

Mary's maiden name was Brady (the mother). This might help you finding Mary Kathleen's birth.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ue&pId=1137521

Name: Patricius Kelly
[Patrick Kelly]
Age: 0
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1895
Baptism Date: 11 Dec 1895
Baptism Place: St Anthony's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: Joannis Kelly
Mother: Mariae Brady

ElizabethHerts · #6 18-12-20, 08:02

I found this birth registration but it might be too early:

Name: Kathleen Mary Kelly
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Apr - Jun 1887
Event Place: Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1887
Registration District: Dublin South
Volume Number: 2

Merry · #7 18-12-20, 08:31

To save me clicking back and forth - from the 1901 census already posted, the children shown are:

Agnes 16
John 14
Mary 12
Joseph 9
Patrick 6

the first 4 born in Ireland and Patrick in Liverpool.

If the details about Patrick's are correct (if!) and he was registered, then one of these two should be his birth reg (checked 1905-1906):

KELLY, PATRICK mmn CALLIGAN
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 18

KELLY, PATRICK mmn DEVANNY
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 50

So, the good news about those mmns is that they are not quite as common as Kelly and the bad news that they might be more easily subject to spelling variations.

The other interesting news is that both of those births are in St Martin's sub district of Liverpool (according to Lancs BMD) which is where the family are in 1901.

The less good news is that I've not found a John Kelly marrying either of those surnames in Ireland 1870-1895 (we dont know this Mary is the mother of all the children).

I have gone round in circles looking at different things, trying to get lucky, but mostly concentrating on the Kelly birth indexes in Dublin (and Morh and South Dublin) and not found anything to help yet (possibly because I tend to jump from one thing to another before finishing the previous though!!).

There are numerous reasons a marriage may not show up, etc etc but I think if this was my tree I might consider purchasing those two birth certificates from 1895 to see if it's possible to be certain one of them is the correct Patrick. It might show a prev married surname for Mary which could explain not finding a sensible marriage in Ireland etc etc

There's probably other searches that could be done to save from doing that and you could get lucky straight away, but you might think splashing out on two certificates is worth the expense to potentially save time. In my experience if you pay the money you will find the answer between the time you order is placed and the arrival of your puchase(s)!

When I searched for Mary Kelly b 1889 in Ireland I only looked at the entries for that name in Dublin (and North and South) and didn't see any with father John at all, regardless of the mother's name. I didn't look at all the registrations with no forename for the child as there were a lot

so thats something you could try (at least some f those wil be children who had already died by the time they were registered, but I can't think of a way to sift those out, so you would have to look at them all.

I'll stop rambling now as I've just noticed it's 9.30am despite still being very dark outside!

Merry · #8 18-12-20, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElizabethHerts

I found this birth registration but it might be too early:

Name: Kathleen Mary Kelly
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Apr - Jun 1887
Event Place: Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1887
Registration District: Dublin South
Volume Number: 2

The father of that child is Patrick Kelly. (irish genealogy.ie)

Merry · #9 18-12-20, 08:37

[QUOTE=ElizabethHerts;386400]I notice that the last child, Patrick, aged 6, was born in Liverpool.

There is a baptism for a Patrick Kelly in Liverpool, parents John and Mary, in 1895.

Mary's maiden name was Brady (the mother). This might help you finding Mary Kathleen's birth.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...ue&pId=1137521[QUOTE]

Oooh, I didn't find a birth reg for that one!

Merry · #10 18-12-20, 08:40

I really have to stop now, but maybe disregard what I said about purchasing those two birth certs given Elizabeth has this third candidate!! I really DO have to stop now and do something else......