William Dod

[Colinaffleck]

My dear Merry, you are absolutely free to suggest anything at all. I have only the foggiest idea of where this trail leads and you may be spot on with the idea that I have the wrong Mary and, therefore, the wrong William, altogether. In fact, given my success rate to date, I would not be in the least surprised. I will begin to investigate this suggestion of yours immediately.

[Colinaffleck]

Sadly, no I do not. He seems to have 'appeared', as it were. I fact, I very much suspect he was simply one of the numerous local lads, mostly bondsmen, from one of the numerous local villages and hamlets and so, nothing special. Except, of course, in genealogical terms at which point he becomes damned important!

[Colinaffleck]

Hello Merry
Thank you for the rapid response. I was expecting something in days or weeks. Amazing.
First, I am floundering in a sea of Dod's. Nothing is 'off the table' and I may have to start again from scratch but, my research to date suggests my grandfather:

Thomas Dodd (1896-1975) b. Guilden Sutton, d Chester.

Joseph Dodd (1872-1950) b. Tarvin /Clotton (Tarvin the admin center, Clotton the actual place of birth / residence.)

Samuel Dodd (1833-????) b. in Bickerton, lived and (probably) died Clotton-Hoofield

Philip Dod (1774-????) b. Bickerton 13 Sept 1774 (brothers and sisters: Mary 1776, Elizabeth, 1779 and Joseph 1781). Parents were William and Mary Dod of Bickerton. Philip married twice. First, Margaret Littler (1779-1818) and, at Harthill, they had William, James, Mary, Elizabeth, John and Thomas. Margret Dod (nee Littler) died 5 June 1818. Philip remarried.
To one Anne Stokes (1776-????) on 5 Apr 1883 at Bickerton. There they had Joseph, Samuel and Margaret.

William Dod (b. 1730? at an unknown location and d. at an unknown location (but not at Harthill, Bickerton or any other local village I can find) 31 Jan 1816 or 1783.) On 9 July 1775 he may (may!) have married Mary Foden of and at Brereton-cum-Smethwick. They may (may!) have then moved to Bickerton and there had Philip (1774), Mary (1776), Elizabeth (1779) and Joseph (1781).
So what happened to William and Mary Dod after the birth of their last child in 1781? For sure, I don't know. Another Mary Dod, wife of a William Dod, died at Bickerton in 1777 but that's too early. If I have the right Philip, and if I also have the right William and Mary, there are a number of possibilities as to their fate but they all must start after 1781, the date of the birth of their, I think, last child.

You have given me new stuff to chew on and new hope. Many thanks Merry.
Regards,
Colin

[Merry]

It seems to me a lot more likely your Wm amd Mary were the couple who were from Bickerton at their marriage in Malpas, lived at Bickerton after their marriage, had those 8 children at Bickerton (bap at Harthill) and died and were buried at Harthill (but were from Bickerton still).

The couple who married 17 miles away at Brereton-cum-Smethwick in 1774 seem to have stayed in that parish after their marriage as there are baptisms of children of Wm and Mary at Brereton 1776-1784, so I think you can definitely exclude the marriage to Mary Foden.

[Colinaffleck]

Hello Merry
When you say Wm and Mary who were from Bickerton but whose children were bap at Harthill, is that Mary Lewis? She who married Wm Dod 18 Nov 1765? And whose son, Philip Dod, was born (pardon me, christened) at Harthill 13 Sept 1774?
I could live with that.
Let me play with that for a bit. Thanks again Merry.
Colin

[Merry]

Yes, that's right.

[Colinaffleck]

Hello again Merry
I have been trying to pummel the welter of Dod's of south Cheshire into some shape and, based on our prior correspondence, here is what I presently think:

Philip Dod was indeed christened at Harthill 13 Sept 1774. His parents were William and Mary Dod.(By the way, how did you know that all the births, deaths and marriages from Bickerton were recorded only at Harthill? Its witchcraft isn't it. Anyway.............)

Mary is almost certainly Mary Lewis, b. 16 Apr 1750 at Malpas, parents were Thomas and Jane Lewis. She probably died in 1789, registered at Harthill.

William is certainly William Dod, probably b. 30 Nov 1733 at Tilston, parents were another William and as yet unknown woman. As yet, we have no idea when or where he died though Tilston looks a good bet right now.

William and Mary were probably married at Malpas on 18 Nov 1765.

Now for the issues, both of which you may have some advice about:

a. It bothered me that they married in 1765 but did not start a family until, I thought, with Philip in 1774, then Mary 1776, Elizabeth 1779 and Joseph 1781. However, if we take all the 'William Dod as father' births registered at Harthill starting in that marriage year of 1765 and ending in 1789, the supposed year of Mary's death, we have 11 children, all born between 1766 (Martha) and 1781 (Joseph). The problem? Which ones were Philips siblings? Not all, I know, but which ones?

b. I decided the Mary Dod who died at Harthill, 16 Nov 1789, was our Mary. However, another Mary Dod, also wife of a William Dod, died there on 6 June 1777. I dismissed her and will continue to do so but I have a nagging voice saying, "What if she is our Mary and the one who died in 1789 is not?" This would mean that both Elizabeth (b. 1779) and Joseph (b. 1781) were not Philips siblings. Nor does it help with issue a.

This is a knotty, complicated and, frankly, not very important tangle and if you have anything more important to do (wash the cat, have a nap, gaze idly out the window) you would be far better advised to go for one of those. However, if you are seriously bored and looking for something useless to do, I would much appreciate your call on all this.
Cheers Merry.
Colin

[Merry]

I have copied most of the text from your last message here, so I can address each bit in turn. I've changed the colour for my replies!

Philip Dod was indeed christened at Harthill 13 Sept 1774. His parents were William and Mary Dod.

Yep, I agree with that.

(By the way, how did you know that all the births, deaths and marriages from Bickerton were recorded only at Harthill? Its witchcraft isn't it. Anyway.............)

I'm a bit confused by this comment. Isn't it normal for a baptism, marriage (except for the banns) or burial to be recorded at one church only? In this case the events took place at the church at Harthill (All Saints) but the vicar recorded the 'address' of the parties involved which was Bickerton. I knew this because the images of the Harthill parish registers are available to view on fmp. The address is not recorded on the available transcriptions.

Mary is almost certainly Mary Lewis, b. 16 Apr 1750 at Malpas, parents were Thomas and Jane Lewis. She probably died in 1789, registered at Harthill.

I thought that looked like a possible baptism, though it would have made her pretty young at the marriage. If this were my tree I would pencil her in and wait to see if any further evidence came along. I guess in my mind the name Mary Lewis is a pretty common name, but I don't know much about the frequency of this name in Cheshire. I've commented about the burial date further down.

William is certainly William Dod, probably b. 30 Nov 1733 at Tilston, parents were another William and as yet unknown woman. As yet, we have no idea when or where he died though Tilston looks a good bet right now.

I would be cautious about that baptism as there is a burial in 1735 at Tilston for William, son of William Dod of Tilston, so that child may have died as a toddler. More research required!

You have said before you don't know when and where William died, but I thought we had got that (otherwise you wouldn't know roughly when he was born to be looking for a baptism!) The burial is in the first post I put on this thread:

Burial in the parish of Harthill, Chester
William Dodd of Bickerton buried 31st Jan 1816 aged 86.



William and Mary were probably married at Malpas on 18 Nov 1765.

Yes.

Now for the issues, both of which you may have some advice about:

a. It bothered me that they married in 1765 but did not start a family until, I thought, with Philip in 1774, then Mary 1776, Elizabeth 1779 and Joseph 1781. However, if we take all the 'William Dod as father' births registered at Harthill starting in that marriage year of 1765 and ending in 1789, the supposed year of Mary's death, we have 11 children, all born between 1766 (Martha) and 1781 (Joseph). The problem? Which ones were Philips siblings? Not all, I know, but which ones?

Well I didn't find eleven (two missing). Perhaps you could post up who else you found other than these, below, so I can check the 'abode' for those I've missed. I found:

Martha 1766
John 1767
Hannah 1769
Mary 1771
James 1773
Philip 1774
Elizabeth 1779
Joseph 1781

all of whom were the children of William or William and Mary 'of Bickerton'. I only found one child that appeared to be of another family and that was Elizabeth bap 1773 (soon after James, above) where the family were 'of Burwardsley'. So, I would image all the above, other than the extra Elizabeth, belonged to your family. Note my next reply though.....

b. I decided the Mary Dod who died at Harthill, 16 Nov 1789, was our Mary. However, another Mary Dod, also wife of a William Dod, died there on 6 June 1777. I dismissed her and will continue to do so but I have a nagging voice saying, "What if she is our Mary and the one who died in 1789 is not?" This would mean that both Elizabeth (b. 1779) and Joseph (b. 1781) were not Philips siblings. Nor does it help with issue a.

I think I may have solved this bit!

The death in 1777 seems to be Mary Lewis ('wife of Wm Dod of Bickerton') and then we have another marriage, to another Mary!!

William Dod and Mary Wright both of Bickerton in this parish (the marriage took place at Malpas) were married by banns on 30 April 1778 (their conditions are not given). Witnesses Randle Tomlinson and Peter Barlow (serial witnesses - everyone signed except the bride).

So, after Philip's birth there is a gap whist the first Mary died, William remarried and went on to have two further children. Mary Wright then died in 1789.

You might think it odd that William had his children baptised at Harthill (presumably the church he attended for services) but each time he married he did so at Malpas, in each case to a bride from Bickerton. It's likely he used his official parish church (Bickerton being in the parish of Malpas) to save money as the banns would only have to be read in one church rather than at Harthill and at Malpas.

[Merry]

I think the William Dod who had a daughter, Elizabeth, bap at Harthill and was 'of Burwardsley'' had his other children baptised at Bunbury as there are entries for the son or dau of Wm Dod 'of Burwardsley'' in that parish register.

As I said before, if you can tell me the names of the two children I've missed I'll look at the Harthill register images if you don't have access.

[Merry]

Samuel Dodd (1833-????)
Philip Dod (1774-????)

Samuel appears on the census up to 1901.

Deaths Dec 1907
DODD Samuel 75 Chester 8a 233
(Chester is the district for Clotton-Hoofield)

Philip is on the census up to 1851:

Deaths Mar 1856
Dodd Philip Nantwich 8a 211
(Nantwich is the district for Bickerton)

Neither seems to have written a will.