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Old 01-11-19, 18:25
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I've been looking at this for too long! I feel the answer is there, but it's just not revealing itself to me.

Basically, I want to know the maiden name of the 'wife' here:

1911 Census - 241 Icknield Port Rd, Birmingham

Arthur James Lowe head m 32 chimney sweep b Birmingham
Rose Lowe wife m 29 b Birmingham, m 13 years, children 2, none dec'd
Rose Lowe dau 10 school b Birmingham
Harry Lowe son 12 school b Birmingham
Ivy Chatterley visitor 5 school b Birmingham

The problem is, all my research indicates that '13 years' married relates to the marriage of Arthur James Low to Alice Hollyoake in 1897. They seem to have had two children:


LOWE, ARTHUR WILLIAM
HOLLYOAKE
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 97

LOWE, WILLIAM THOMAS
HOLLYOAKE
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 82

These two boys are together in the workhouse (? some institution) in 1911. I can't find them or either parent in 1901. I don't need to know about the children or Alice particularly- I was only looking to see if there were any clues about Rose at this date.

So, it seems that Rose is not married to Arthur and I suppose the two children with them in 1911 are more likely to be hers, either illegitimate or born in a previous marriage.

Arthur is still alive in 1939 (born 14 Jun 1879 which matches the birth date on his baptism), but that doesn't seem to be any help as his wife's first name is just 'L'. (probably Louisa Harrison m 1927). No probate for Arthur following his death in 1941.
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Old 01-11-19, 18:43
ElizabethHerts ElizabethHerts is online now
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Thoughts!

Are Rose and Alice the same person?

If Alice is a different person, where is she or what happened to her?
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Old 01-11-19, 18:49
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Was Arthur James Lowe the father of Rose and Harry? Probably not, so whose then?
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Old 01-11-19, 18:57
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Here is a matching family for Rose and the children in 1901 (except Rose sr is a couple of years older than she would be if 1911 is correct):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...nSearchResults

but it's the first one I looked at from my search results, so had better check the rest in case there is more than one.
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Old 01-11-19, 19:08
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Didn't find any other family which fitted.

Henry George Chadwick born Jul-Sep 1898 Birmingham MMN Spencer
Rose Lilian Chadwick birth Oct-Dec 1900 Birmingham MMN Spencer
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Old 01-11-19, 19:11
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George Chadwick married Rose Spencer Apr-Jun 1898 Birmingham.

But - bother! Here is the Chadwick family in 1911:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...=successSource

and Rose L Chadwick died in 1901 age 1.

So, back to the drawing board...
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Old 01-11-19, 19:49
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There are two Ivy Chatterleys born in 1906 in Birmingham, one with parents Ernest Chatterley and Maria nee Walton, and one with parents Arthur Bell Chatterley and May Edith nee Young (I thought, but maybe not! Well, at least her MMN was Young). I found the one with MMN Walton on the 1911 census, with her parents and siblings, so the one with the Lowes should be the MMN Young one - unless the other one was in two places at once, which can happen on the censuses.
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Last edited by kiterunner; 01-11-19 at 19:54. Reason: not sure I have the right parents for the second one
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Old 01-11-19, 19:55
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Actually, I don't think Arthur and May Edith were the parents of that Ivy, having found them in 1911, so another Chatterley / Young couple. I was just wondering whether one of Ivy's parents could be a relative of Rose's.
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Old 01-11-19, 20:16
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lol Kate! That is the can of worms you have opened!! I was trying not to mention it as it could lead to the longest post ever!!

You are right that Arthur Bell Chatterley and his wife are not the parents of the Ivy who is with the Lowe family in 1911. This Ivy (Ivy Ellen) is the daughter of Samuel Frederick Chatterley who is the brother of Arthur Bell Chatterley. Samuel's common law wife was Kate Young. They had four children together 1904-1912 and after that there is a nightmare of complicated relationships I'm trying to work out!

As Kate Young (Samuel's 'wife') and May Edith (Arthur's wife) don't seem to be closely related, I was hoping Rose might be Kate's sister.

In 1911 Kate Young (calling herself Chatterley) is in the workhouse with two of her three children, Frederick (b 1904) and Henry Vincent (b 1910) and her middle child, Ivy, is with the Lowe's. Samuel is nowhere to be seen. It would be very useful indeed if I could find him.

Samuel's details are (in case you would rather look for him in 1911):

Samuel Frederick Chatterley birth reg Q1 1874 Daventry (b Weedon Northants)

1881 with parents
1891 not found
1901 Army barracks (in Hampshire? I forget), says born Birmingham, but I'm sure it's him - Birmingham is where he was brought up. His army record is on FMP which shows he signed up in 1893 and was discharged in 1905)
1911 no sign. I have checked the addresses given on his children's baptisms in 1904, 06 and 1910. Nothing to help.
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Old 01-11-19, 21:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethHerts View Post
Thoughts!

Are Rose and Alice the same person?

If Alice is a different person, where is she or what happened to her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethHerts View Post
Was Arthur James Lowe the father of Rose and Harry? Probably not, so whose then?
Sorry Elizabeth - I got a bit carried away with Kate's posts!

I don't think Rose and Alice are the same person, mainly because Alice seems to have had two sons before 1901, but Rose says she has had two children who would appear to be Harry and Rose jr.

I don't know what happened to Alice. I can't find her in 1901 or 1911. I've just realised I don't know if her sons were baptised, so I could look for that in case the address for the second one is useful in 1901.
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