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Old 23-09-15, 17:10
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Exclamation Charlotte Ellen SMITH / EIGHTEEN

[This is also on Family Tree Forum, so if you use both forums you may get some déjà vu!]

Hi all,

Having made excellent progress with my family tree, I am nonetheless a little stumped as to exactly who my great-grandmother was, as information we have on her is limited and I am still no closer to finding exact birth and death dates. Information I've found on other people's online family trees seems suspect when studied in any detail, and so I thought I'd ask for your help rather than just 'go with the flow' and make assumptions.

Her details on her marriage certificate to my great-grandfather are:

Name: Charlotte Ellen SMITH
Age: 18
Condition: Spinster
Profession: -
Residence: Arthur Road
Father's name: Thomas SMITH
Father's profession: General Dealer [this is not 100% clear but looks about right]

She married Frederick Syer EIGHTEEN at St. John's Church, Reading on 19/06/1886.

Curiously, on my grandfather's marriage certificate to my grandmother, he has put his mother's name as Ellen Charlotte EIGHTEEN, rather than Charlotte Ellen. This may be important, I don't know.

There is a January 1923 death certificate index for her under the name Charlotte E L EIGHTEEN, but it just gives her birth as 'about 1870' and doesn't give an exact date of death. I believe the L is for either Louise or Louisa; you will find references to this on public family trees on Ancestry, and she had a daughter named Vera Ellen Louise EIGHTEEN.

I've scoured Ancestry for Charlotte Ellens, Ellen Charlottes and variations thereof, but I've not been able to locate anyone I believe to be the right candidate. I've seen mentions of a Fortunatus SMITH who lived in Reading and had a daughter named Charlotte A SMITH, but I believe the link to be erroneous. I've checked census records for 1871 and 1881, but again can't seem to find a convincing Charlotte Ellen SMITH, and of course after 1891 she appears as Charlotte Ellen EIGHTEEN and lives with Frederick Syer, which is fine and obviously that's her.

I did find a school admission record for a Charlotte SMITH at one of the same schools as some of the EIGHTEEN children went to, but her birthday was 15/10/1870 and the father's name was Wm. [sic] which I think is William, so we can probably rule her out.

If any of you kind folks wouldn't mind doing a bit of research and trying to help me pin down the right Charlotte Ellen then I'd be hugely grateful. I suppose the obvious answer would be to just order a copy of her death certificate, but I'm not sure it would give her date of birth or much useful information there besides.

Do you have any advice for me? I'm fairly new to genealogy and have been making surprisingly good progress so far, but every so often I do seem to hit a brick wall.
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Old 23-09-15, 17:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James18 View Post

There is a January 1923 death certificate index for her under the name Charlotte E L EIGHTEEN, but it just gives her birth as 'about 1870' and doesn't give an exact date of death. I believe the L is for either Louise or Louisa; you will find references to this on public family trees on Ancestry, and she had a daughter named Vera Ellen Louise EIGHTEEN.
The actual index won't give a date or year of birth; this will have been calculated by software from her age at death on the index. If you want the exact date of death and to see what the L stands for, you would need to order a copy of the death certificate (unless we can find a burial entry or probate or something.) But it won't give her date of birth on the death cert either.
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Old 23-09-15, 17:28
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Who were the witnesses at Charlotte and Frederick's wedding, please?
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Old 23-09-15, 17:31
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John and Sophia Eighteen, his brother and sister-in-law.
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Old 23-09-15, 17:36
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There is a Thomas Smith at 4 Arthur Rd, Reading, in on the 1881 census, but he is an unmarried labourer in a biscuit factory:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/75...nSearchResults

Age 45, born Combebrook, Middlesex. I'll see if I can find him in 1891 to rule him out.
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Old 23-09-15, 17:56
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The Thomas Smith in post #5 is still unmarried in 1891, in Reading Union Workhouse, with occupation General Laborer. I haven't found him in 1871 yet (just in case he was with a young Charlotte then!)
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Old 23-09-15, 18:00
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There is this family in 1881:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/75...nSearchResults

42 Castle Street, Reading
Thomas Smith Head Mar 31 Sawyer & Beer Shop Keeper Oxon Cropredy
Mary Do Wife Mar 39 Do Didenton
Ellen Do Daur 12 Scholar Berks Reading
Rosa Do Daur 9 Do Do Do
Anne Do Daur 5 Do Do Do
Maria Archer Servant Unm 21 Dairy Maid Do Ascot
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Last edited by kiterunner; 23-09-15 at 18:07. Reason: add in transcription
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Old 23-09-15, 18:03
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Frederick Syer lived at 7 Arthur Road according to the 1881 census, and so this will likely be the same address he was at in 1886 when he got married.

That means that Charlotte either lived with her own family (father?) down Arthur Road, or was already staying with Frederick Syer -- although given the period, I admit this is very unlikely.

So, I suppose that narrows things down.
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Old 23-09-15, 18:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James18 View Post
Frederick Syer lived at 7 Arthur Road according to the 1881 census, and so this will likely be the same address he was at in 1886 when he got married.

That means that Charlotte either lived with her own family (father?) down Arthur Road, or was already staying with Frederick Syer -- although given the period, I admit this is very unlikely.

So, I suppose that narrows things down.
She may have just put it down as her address when she got married for convenience's sake - so she was living in the same parish as Frederick, for instance, to save on having banns called in two churches or whatever.
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Old 23-09-15, 18:11
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I'm not saying this is the case here, but couples often put the same address as each other when they married to save paying to have the banns read in two churches if they actually lived in two different parishes.

EDIT - sorry, snap Kate!
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