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  #1  
Old 15-01-14, 13:34
violetlover violetlover is offline
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Default Mary Agnes and Rose Archer ......

I am looking for any information at all on Mary Agnes and Rose Archer, our grandmother and great aunt.

Mary was born in London England in 1877 and her sister Rose was born in Poplar, London in 1879.

In the 1881 census both girls are in the St. Vincent Orphanage run by the Sisters of Charity. I have contacted his organization and they don't have a record of Mary and Rose being there.

In 1882 both girls were sent to Canada on the ship Peruvian which left Liverpool September 14th, and arrived in Quebec September 24th. We believe the girls were in a party under Cardinal Manning.

Mary was eventually adopted by an older could in Ottawa, Evan Edwards and his wife Anne (Dwyer). She married our grandfather, James Angus Nolan, in 1903.

We have tried for many, many years to find who the birth parents of Mary and Rose would be and wondered why they were put in the orphanage at such a young age. Either poverty or death seems to be a logical reason.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Ann [email protected]
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Old 15-01-14, 14:01
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There is a Rose Archer birth registered Jul-Sep 1879 in the St George in the East district, but I think that is likely to be the Rose Archer who is 1, born Wapping, on the 1881 census, with parents Aron and Fanny. She does have a sister Marrey age 5, also born Wapping, but these girls are still with their parents on the 1891 census anyway so we can definitely rule them out.

There is also a Rosetta Archer birth registered Jan-Mar 1879 Poplar district, which I guess is where you get Rose's birthplace of Poplar from? There is a likely entry for her on the 1881 census, Rosa Archer age 3 born Bromley, with parents Abraham and Caroline, living in Poplar. On the 1891 census she is Rosetta Archer, age 12, born Bromley, London, with parents Abraham and Caroline. Bromley was in the Poplar registration district.

So neither of those birth regs looks to be the right one for your Rose. Will look some more and see if I can find a more likely one. (Rose being a less common name than Mary so hopefully easier to pick out.)

Edit - I see that your Rose is listed as Rosetta on the passenger list for entry to Canada in 1882.
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Old 15-01-14, 14:05
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Those are the same two I investigated and came up with the same results!
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Old 15-01-14, 14:14
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We can also rule out Rosina Archer born Jan-Mar 1878 Kensington and Rosa Lavinia Archer born Oct-Dec 1879 St Saviour as they appear on the 1881 census with their parents.
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Old 15-01-14, 17:05
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Ann, can I ask when the middle name Agnes first appears in Mary's name, please? It isn't on the 1881 census record or the passenger list for their arrival in Canada.

Also, have you been able to look at any adoption records? And was Rose adopted by the same couple? If not, do you know what happened to her?
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Old 15-01-14, 21:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiterunner View Post
Ann, can I ask when the middle name Agnes first appears in Mary's name, please? It isn't on the 1881 census record or the passenger list for their arrival in Canada.

Also, have you been able to look at any adoption records? And was Rose adopted by the same couple? If not, do you know what happened to her?
I saw this message when I googled:

http://boards.ancestrylibrary.com/su.../mb.ashx?pnt=1

Also the marriage between Mary and Angus James Nolan in Sept 1903 gives no middle name for Mary (she used surname Edwards for that and gave her adoptive parents details). She said she was 23.

I've seen birth/bap details for three of the four children and the names recorded for Mary are:

1905 Mary Agnes Edwards
1906 Mary Edmunds (probably a mistranscription?)
1910 Mary Archer

I can't see the birth for violetlover's father in 1903 so I don't know what name Mary used that time.
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Old 15-01-14, 22:45
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If only the London poor law records on ancestry were all name-indexed, they might turn up in there. But I wouldn't know where to start looking as it is. Of course they will be name-indexed one day.
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  #8  
Old 20-01-14, 13:00
violetlover violetlover is offline
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Default Mary Agnes Nolan ....

Mary Agnes was in her obit but I have also found it in other places. Will go through my files and have a look.
"NOLAN, Mary Agnes - In hospital on Sunday, June 5,1960, Mary Agnes Edwards age 84 years, widow of James Angus Nolan, 879 Gladstone Avenue and deer mother of Leo, Harry and Emmett. Resting McEvoy Brothers, 235 Kent Street. Funeral Tuesday to St. Anthonys Church for Solemn Requiem High Mas at 9:30 a.m. Burial Notre Dame Cemetery."

Her name is listed as Archer on the birth certificate for our Dad.

Name:
Joseph Emmett Nolan

Date of Birth:
24 Jan 1910

Gender:
Male

Birth County or District:
Carleton

Father's Name:
James Angus Nolan

Mother's Name:
Mary Archer

Archive Name:
Archives of Ontario

Archive Series:
MS929

Archive Reel:
208
Thanks all.
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Old 20-01-14, 13:14
violetlover violetlover is offline
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Default Archer/Nolan

This is the birth of the daughter of Mary Archer and James Angus Nolan that died when she was about five or six. This is the other birth that gives the name as Archer not Edwards who were her adoptive parents. With the birth records of the other two boys, Harry and Leo, her last name appears as Edwards.


Name:
Elizabeth Mary Nolan

Date of Birth:
20 Mar 1908

Gender:
Female

Birth County or District:
Carleton

Father's Name:
James A Nolan

Mother's Name:
Mary A Archer

Archive Name:
Archives of Ontario

Archive Series:
MS929

Archive Reel:
4

St. Vincent's Orphanage has no records of the children listed on the page which shows both Rose and Mary along with other children. I have asked Sister Bernadette of St. Vincent's why no records exist and she really does not have any idea other than Rose, who was two at the time, was not listed as a "scholar" and Mary was which was no doubt due to her age of 5 at the time.
She said she had read that in 1869 the Sisters had opened a nursery and that might account for Rose not showing up.

It is believed that they came over with a group of children, Cardinal Manning's group which are shown on the previous page of the ships list.
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Old 20-01-14, 13:27
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Do you have any record that says these two girls are sisters and not just two children with the surname Archer in the orphanage at the same time?

Hopefully when Ancestry have transcribed moor London poor law records you will have a chance of discovering more about these two girls.
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