MMF George Spence - which one, where?

[Janet]

MMF George Spence

I've had to reject a couple of inappropriate choices so far for the early George Spence who was born, gosh darn it, before civil registration. Can anybody help point me in the direction of a better fit?

I'm going to order the death cert., I guess, although I don't think it's going to tell me a lot about his origins, is it?

Name - George Spence

Date and place of birth - 1829, 1830, or 1831, place unknown
IGI has an extracted record for a George Spence christened 25 NOV 1829, Knaresborough, Yorkshire, England, with father William Spence and mother Ann. Could be him, but I really don't know.

Names of parents - William Spence (from two marriage cert.'s) and unknown

Date and place of baptism - unknown

Details of each of his or her marriages -

1 Apr 1850 at York RO to Jane Gardner/Gardener b. 1831 Coxwold, Yorks., d. Apr. 1871 Bramley, Yorks.
George is age 20, Bachelor, Profession Groom, Residence South Prospect Street, the Mount, York.
Father William Spence, Labourer.
Jane is age 19, Spinster, Profession Servant, Residence Saint Saviourgate, York.
Her father Thomas Gardner, Labourer.
George makes his mark, Jane signs.
witnesses Charlotte Burley and Andrew Burley. Both sign.
Children:
Ann Elizabeth 1862
Louisa 1864
Kate 1868 (d? Jan. 1874)
Sarah Jane (Sallie) 1869

3 Apr 1872 at Parish Church, Leeds, by Banns to Elizabeth Crampton late Wilson (my ggrandmother) b. 13 Jun 1838 Meanwood, Yorks., d. Sep Qtr 1899 Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorks.
George is age 42, Widower, Profession Coachman, Residence Headingley.
Father William Spence, Waggoner.
Elizabeth is age 34, Widow, Profession [blank], Residence Headingley.
Her father David Crampton, Mason.
This time George signs and Elizabeth signs.
Witnesses James Moore and Jane Moore. Both sign.
Children:
Mary Ann bap. 10 Aug 1873 Headingley, d. Sep Qtr 1874 Headingley
Elizabeth (Lily; my gmother) b. 3 Feb. 1875 Headingley, Leeds, Yorks., d. 29 Apr. 1953 Niagara County, New York
Ethel May b. 21 May 1877 Headingley, Leeds, Yorks., d. 3 Aug. 1935 York, Ontario, Canada

Occupation(s) - if any
1850 marriage - Groom
1851 - Groom
1861 - Coachman
1871 - Labourer
1872 marriage - Coachman
1881 - Coachman (Unemployed)
1891 - General Labourer

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
1850 marriage - South Prospect Street, the Mount, York
1851 - 36 Dringhouses Manor Cottages (born "Stainfordbridge, Yorkshire, England" per Ancestry; could be Stamford Bridge?)
1861 - Elmet Hall, Roundhay, Leeds, home of Mayor James Kitson (born "Branton" per Ancestry; possibly Brearton, in Knaresborough RD as on 1891)
1871 - 6 Stanley St., Wortley, Holbeck, Leeds (born "Knaresboro'")
1872 marriage - Headingley, Leeds, Yorks.
1881 - 8 Chapel Square, Headingley, Leeds (born "Knaresbro', Yorkshire, England")
1891 - 83 High Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven, Keighley RD (born "Brearton, Yorks.")

On Ancestry:
1851
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=10902776
1861
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=10554197
1871
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=26234534
1881
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1881&indiv=1
1891
http://search.ancestry.com/iexec?htx...id&pid=4705222


Date, place and cause of death - 13 Feb 1900, 5 Chapel Street, Headingley, Leeds, cancer of rectum
J.H. Saunders, Son in Law, present at death

Date and place of burial. - unknown

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable - unknown

Memorial inscription - if any - unknown

===============================================

The problem is the 1841. Where is George? Is he with the family of his father William Spence? And which William Spence where?

We've eliminated the Bramley ones (even though Jane died there) because that William is a hand loom weaver, and that George Spence stays there and appears in later censuses.

Our George keeps saying he was born in Knaresborough, or Brearton which is a parish in Knaresborough RD. He hooks up with Jane who is from Coxwold, and they are both residing in York and get married there in 1850. I think "Stainfordbridge" on the 1851 may mean Stamford Bridge, on the east side of York. So those places are the general direction I would like to look for George's early life.

Am I wrong to be attracted to this one here in 1841 with father William Spence labourer on Queen Street in York?
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=14997367

Do I have a whole slew of children missing from his first marriage, by the way? The ones I am currently aware of start in 1862. But on the 1851 and 1861 census George and Jane have no kids with them.

Also, does anybody see any other children from the second marriage?

There are some quite old threads for George Spence that I need to delete or clean up. I don't think they're useful to direct anyone to.

Sorry if I'm unresponsive. I''m posting this and going to bed!!! Back tomorrow.

[kiterunner]

Although his birthplace on the 1851 census is transcribed as Stainfordbridge on ancestry, it actually says Stamford Bridge.

[Merry]

And Stamford Bridge is quite a way from Knaresborough.

[Merry]

I know it all appears to fit together well, but should you be getting one of the birth certs for the first group of children to confirm you have the right first marriage?

[kiterunner]

Louisa's birth certificate is shown on a public family tree on ancestry and it does have mother's name as Jane Spence, formerly Gardner.

[Merry]

Oooh, that saves some money!

Very interestng that in 1871 their eldest child was 9. It seems unlikely there were no other surviving children from before that. Have you looked at children not living with their parents in 1861? Have you traced the know children forward in case they have other relatives with them on any census?

[kiterunner]

If you can get a look at or full transcription of the 1829 Knaresborough baptism, it should give you the father's occupation and maybe a more specific residence than just Knaresborough - maybe it will say Brearton, which would help!

This looks like the William and Ann from that 1841 census in 1851 at New York Street, York:
William Spence Head Mar 47 Labourer Yorks Linton on Ouse
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 48 Do Warthill
Jesse Do Son U 19 Labourer York
William Do Son U 14 Scholar York
Elizabeth Do Daur 13 Scholar York

I haven't managed to find Jesse in 1841 yet.

[kiterunner]

That public tree on ancestry has a lot of info in it. It says that George was a witness at his father's second marriage, 14 Oct 1860, Leeds. But it doesn't say who his father was. I wonder if they're sure it was his father's second marriage and not third. Anyway, I'll see if I can figure out what marriage they mean.

[kiterunner]

Okay, looks as though they're talking about the Bramley family who have their George still with them in 1851, so that marriage witness bit is probably a red herring, sorry.

[anne fraser]

There is a William and Grace Spence at Stamford Bridge in 1841 old enough to be his parents. Caton district also reference to a John Spence farmer.