James Holden and Mary Robishaw

[Merry]

But it's Ruth Patefield's husband who is the other factory engineer, isn't it?

[Olde Crone]

Still looking for my notes, Merry!

OC

[Kit]

OC maybe your first wife hadn't died when he married the second time.

I had a relative who disappeared on several census. His wife said she was married on every census but he was not there. I could find her an all census from the time they married. I found a likely man for my relative but decided he could not be the right one when I worked backwards as he was married and living with his wife on the 1861 census. However over time more marriage records appeared online and the kids got married and Dad was on the marriage certs. All info pointed to this other man. Finally one child married from Dad's address.

So it turned out Dad abandoned his wife, shacked up with another and had a family with her. Both "wives" claimed to be married to him and on the first census after the second relationship began both listed him on the census.

Dad eventually married his second "wife" after the first one died 40 years later and his younger kids were well into their 20s or 30s.

I hope that makes sense.

OC I have missing possible marriage and baptisms for Greenacres Independent at Oldham. His second marriage was found in Lancashire.
On the Census we've found a son from his first marriage and also the oldest daughter from the 2nd marriage, their births given at Greenacres, Oldham, but while I've found the later children's baptisms there, not the older two.
Good hunting .. maybe they are all together somewhere.

[Olde Crone]

Kit

I'm not even going to go there, thankyou!

So far, I have 217 marriages to examine and rule in or out. And those are only the ones in Lancashire, so it may be quite some time before I can start considering the possibility of bigamy, to add to my trouble!

OC

[Merry]

So far, I have 217 marriages to examine

How near the top are James and Ruth?

[Olde Crone]

James and Ruth are the best bet yet - my bro is going to look at the mariage entry if he can find out where the records are at the mo, Man Central Library is still closed. If not, I shall get the cert (even though I have made a note to myself that I've already ordered it back in 1998!)

I've knocked off a few more hot contenders on the grounds that everyone was telling the truth which I know is dangerous, but I have to eliminate the obvious first, then re examine them if nothing else can be found.

OC

[Merry]

my bro is going to look at the mariage entry

Good.

If that James isn't yours, I hope he can be positively identified by his father's details/baptism or something.

[Olde Crone]

Well, finally got the details of the marriage of James Holden and Ruth Patefield. Needless to say, I cannot rule them either in or out!

Man Cath 16 Sept 1849
James Holden (X) 24 bach lab abode Red Bank
F= Robert Holden, labourer
Ruth Patefield (signed)24 spinster of Foundry St
F = Reuben Patefield weaver
Wits Elijah Patefield, Mary Patefield.

I would dismiss this as my James says that his father is JAMES HOLDEN, when he marries my 2 x GGM in 1859. However I strongly suspect (98%) that his father was actually ROBERT Ashton. So is he fudging the issue and giving correct first name of father?

I am sure there was no James Holden with a father Robert Holden, born Chorley, but I will have another look at my baptism extractions!

OC

[Merry]

Typical!

Elijah is probably Ruth's brother (bap 1812 son of Charles and Peggy). Not sure about Mary. Elijah married Sarah Greenhalgh, witnesses John Driver and Mary Green, so presumably no connection to James Holden, though the surname Green rings a bell for reasons I don't remember!

It's a good job Ruth has a reasonably rare first name as otherwise we might not even know this marriage belonged to the factory engineer as he said labourer as occ!

Do you think Ruth's death cert would hold any clues? What are the chances that James already knew Ellen (a neighbour, or something) and she registered Ruth's death??? ..............Well, you never know! lol .....Hmmmm....I suppose that's extremely unlikely as I presume Ellen always lived in Manchester after coming from the IoM?

I'm thinking if this IS the right James then it's becoming more likely that the moon-faced Joseph is Ellen's son as Ruth doesn't seem to have had any children (did she? I don't remember any?) and James and Ruth lived in Bury not Manchester.