Help - DNA match and a Wingfield conundrum again

[Phoenix]

Since I'm clearly not going to move from this armchair, who were your disappearing John's parents and his siblings? Do they appear on a census in 51? Just so I know who I should be looking for. If I've got a date and place of birth for one, I should be able to latch onto the family.

My 3rd great grandfather Daniel's siblings

John Wingfield <----- This one probably married an Agnes Burgess
B 1800 Southwark, London, England

Links I have neither confirmed or dismissed.

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree...90968159/hints

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree...90968159/hints

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui...d=422090968159

William Wingfield
B 1806 • Holborn London, England

Francis Wingfield
Bi 1813 • St Pancras, London, England

I have never been sure these 3 are Daniel's siblings but maybe.


My 2nd great grandmother Emma's (Daniel's daughter) siblings.

Henry Wingfield
B 22 July 1819 • Shoreditch, London, England

John Dorset Wingfield
B 6 July 1828 • Shoreditch, London, England

I have never found Henry for sure after the age of 12 when he was baptised.

The last sighting of John is 1841

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...=try&h=7793019

Could have been transported to Australia, a likely John on the criminal registers keeps popping up.

Don't let this distract you from other things Phoenix.

This conundrum is so infuriating, going around circles.

[Phoenix]

For all we know, she could be a daughter of Emma before she married.
Also, when Ann Wingfield is buried in 1860, she was living at Victoria Road, DALSTON.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

For all we know, she could be a daughter of Emma before she married.
Also, when Ann Wingfield is buried in 1860, she was living at Victoria Road, DALSTON.

Emma who? My 2nd great grandmother Emma was born in 1842 she was the youngest, her sister Sarah was 14 years older and her sister Ann was 8 years older. The Victoria Rd in Dalston is in a totally different area to Victoria Dock Road in Custom House which is Plaistow area.

The Dalston connection and the name Wingfield is why I think Emma Wingfield who married Pierce Driscoll is the DNA connection. I considered that she was Sarah's daughter Emma who was born in 1857 but she was registered as Emma Ann Palmer father the elusive Frederick Palmer Seaman. This Emma could quite clearly use the Palmer name and Frederick as her father it's all there on her birth certificate whether its true or not so no need to use her mother's maiden name of Wingfield.

I lose Emma Ann Palmer after the 1861 census.

Remember I can't find a birth registration in that area that would fit this Emma Wingfield.

[Phoenix]

Ann Wingfield, presumably one of Daniel's daughters died 1860 and was buried 23 Dec 1860, in Victoria Park Cemetery. Her adress is given as Victoria Road Dalston: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
It's not inconceivable that she had an illegitimate daughter, born were she was living when she died, who she called after her sister Emma. I'm not sayiing that that is the case, just that it is a possible scenario, with one member of your Wingfield family actually living in the same district where the mysterious Emma was born.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Ann Wingfield, presumably one of Daniel's daughters died 1860 and was buried 23 Dec 1860, in Victoria Park Cemetery. Her adress is given as Victoria Road Dalston: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discovery...=successSource
It's not inconceivable that she had an illegitimate daughter, born were she was living when she died, who she called after her sister Emma. I'm not sayiing that that is the case, just that it is a possible scenario, with one member of your Wingfield family actually living in the same district where the mysterious Emma was born.

Yes but can't find birth registration for any Emma Wingfield in that area which would be Hackney or at a stretch Shoreditch in the time frame. I could see no illegitimate births at all anywhere.

[Merry]

Originally Posted by maggie_4_7

Yes but can't find birth registration for any Emma Wingfield in that area which would be Hackney or at a stretch Shoreditch in the time frame. I could see no illegitimate births at all anywhere.

Perhaps her birth wasn't registered? A fair percentage were not, especially before the 1870s when the rules were tightened. I expect the percentage of unregistered births was probably higher for illegitimate births and also for those born in a city or other busy place where you could more easily pass under the radar.

Originally Posted by Merry

Perhaps her birth wasn't registered? A fair percentage were not, especially before the 1870s when the rules were tightened. I expect the percentage of unregistered births was probably higher for illegitimate births and also for those born in a city or other busy place where you could more easily pass under the radar.

Yes - I don't think I will ever solve this. Hoping for a DNA match with a descendent of the Moorhouse children to confirm it is Emma that is the link.

I did think she may be Ann's daughter, I am not judging them I wasn't there they were very poor, but living the way they did, both Ann and Sarah seem to be living at the same adress of Victoria Road and taking into account Sarah's children, I can't see that Ann would not have had a child a some point.

[Merry]

The Ann who died in 1860 was only 23 though, so not sure she fits well