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#1
27-02-17, 13:20
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More help needed with deciphering Latin please
Following on from Mary in Italy's plea for help deciphering Latin....can anyone help with a note on my gt aunt's Catholic baptismal entry please? Here is the Findmypast link to the image:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/recor...hlights=%22%22 The entry concerned is number 493 on the page for the baptism of Catharina Maria Lalley of 31 Dorset Street. I am having trouble reading the note scribbled under the address, some of which, I think, consists of abbreviated words. This is what I think at least some of it says: "Privatum ob peric mater cam---a supplit a die 28th October 1888" The last bit is obviously the date on which whatever it was took place. At first I thought "mater" said "mortes", suggesting a death/burial....except that this child grew up, married and had children of her own. She was my Mum's Auntie Kitty who I have heard stories of so I know she didn't die as a baby. I have tried translating what I think it says online but just come up with gobbledy gook. My friend has a cousin who is a Catholic priest and she is prepared to ask him what it means IF I can decipher it. My best guess is that it refers to some kind of ceremony concerning my gt grandmother after the birth. Not being Roman Catholic myself, I have no idea what that might be. 
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#3
27-02-17, 14:29
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Born 27th day of the month of July 1888
Baptised 7th day of the month of October 1888 Catharine Mary Lalley daughter of Daniel and Mary Ann Lalley (formerly Daniels) by me Henry Martin (followed by two letters that look like S and I) Godfather: William Burke Godmother: Mary Burke I can't read the bit on the left very well but it does look as if a death is mentioned. I'll take a closer look.
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#4
27-02-17, 14:29
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Yes, Phoenix is correct - it was a private baptism for a sickly child.
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#5
27-02-17, 15:02
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I think it says "Privatmi Ob peric. mortis Caeremoniae suppletae".
The initials after the priest's name are probably SJ, which means he was a Jesuit.
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#6
27-02-17, 16:15
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Thank you all. The only thing that gives me doubt about it being a private baptism for a sickly child is that the main entry shows she was baptised on 7th October and the scribbled note under the address refers to 28th October. If she had already been baptised why would they feel the need to do it again?
I wonder if it was her mother - my gt. grandmother - who was 'in danger of dying' and had a private baptism? She hadn't been born a Catholic and had been baptised in the C.o.E. She married an Irish Catholic in a parish church in London that is described as being noted for its Anglo Catholic liturgy in Victorian times....so maybe this was the moment when she was received into the Roman Catholic church? I know she did become a Catholic at some point and all her children were Catholic (my grandmother ended up rebelling and marrying an Anglican which is why my twig of the tres is C.o.E.). She didn't die then either. Kitty was her 4th child, she went on to have another 6 and died in 1939!
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#7
27-02-17, 16:23
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Ann
I don't know about the RC church but in the C of E another baptismal ceremony should follow a private baptism. The second ceremony is worded slightly differently and is to receive the child into the church. First baptism spiritual, followed by a temporal one! OC
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#8
27-02-17, 16:26
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Could it mean that she was privately baptised on the 7th Oct and then publicly received into the church on the 28th?
Edit - snap, OC!
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#9
27-02-17, 16:31
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Oh, it has just occurred to me: did the priest make the entry on 28th October about it having been a private baptism on 7th? Maybe he was just behind with his admin!
The Chapel of the Sacred Heart, Horseferry Road where this baptism took place was a Chapel of Ease -an outpost - of Westminster Cathedral. My grandmother was baptised there too. When some of the later children were born the family was living in Soho and then the children were baptised in the chapel of the Bavarian Embassy. Very exotic!
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#10
27-02-17, 16:41
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, of course! I should have worked all that out for myself as I've come across it before. A gt grandfather on my father's side was privately baptised on the day he was born in 1840 because he wasn't expected to live and then he had a public baptism in church about 3 weeks later. I looked into the rules when I discovered that and found that...in the C.o.E. at least....a private ceremony must be followed by one in front of the congregation within a certain time frame if the child survives. He did. He died in 1920 having fathered 12 children!
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