Jones/Williams of Ruabon/Rhos/Wrexham

[kiterunner]

Do I remember the name Valentine coming up on one of your other threads?

This is the Thomas / Ann / Harriet Jones family in 1891:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...urn&pId=497557

Starts at the bottom of the page with Thomas, then the rest are on the next page, including some Valentines. I think Jane and Mary E should be granddaughters rather than daughters.

[Merry]

Is this Harriet's death?

Name: Harriet Williams
Death Age: 97
Birth Date: 8 Dec 1875
Registration Date: Jul 1973
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Wrexham
Inferred County: Denbighshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 1868

A Harriet Williams with the same dob is with Edmund (dob 10 Jul 1875) on the 1939 Register.

There look like the most likely birth registrations:

JONES, HARRIET JANE mmn PRICE
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 323

JONES, HARRIET mmn PARRY
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 298

The first is probably not the right one as there is a Harriet Jane, dau of Thomas and Sarah Jones on the 1881 and 1891 census who fits that registration (and a likely marriage for Thomas Jones and Sarah Price, Wrexham 1874). Also, your Harriet doesn't show a middle name at marriage or death. If you are concerned that it's the following Q to her birth - you have 42 days to register a birth!

There's a possible marriage 4 Mar 1854 for Thomas Jones and Ann Parry (FMP). Both aged 21 he was a colllier, both of Street Isaf. His father John Jones, collier, her father William Parry, labourer. Witnesses Daniel Wright and Hannah Jones (mark). Thomas Jones signed and Ann Parry made her mark. The marrriage took place at Ruabon parish church.

[NickJarvis]

@kiterunner - yes, Valentine. Very well remembered - will look at that link, thanks

@Merry - yes that looks like Harriet's death. I also noticed on another MC, 'in the mark of'. What does that mean? And on Gro I couldn't find a middle name, and assumed her mmn was Parry. I will check FMP too. Thanks

[NickJarvis]

So, a couple of Ancestor members have submitted a contribution stating that Jane Jones and Mary E Jones should be Valentine, indicating to me that maybe Elizabeth is the mum and she married a Valentine?

[Phoenix]

VALANTINE, JANE JONES
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 310

The girls are shown as Valantine (not Jones) and the census suggests they are Elizabeth's daughters, though they should have been described as Thomas and Ann's granddaughters.

[Merry]

I also noticed on another MC, 'in the mark of'. What does that mean?

"X the mark of Joe Bloggs" just means Joe Bloggs couldn't sign his name, or the person asking assumed he couldn't and so he (or she!) made their mark instead.

[NickJarvis]

aha, thank-you

[NickJarvis]

@Phoenix - could the 2 girls and boy have been Elizabeth's children, but she wasn't married? Therefore on the census they were put down as the children rather than the GC? I have an Elizabeth Valentine as Edmund's auntie, born circa 1854, making her 36 (ish) in 1891, which matches the Elizabeth in the census? Or am I making too much of an assumption?

[kiterunner]

This is what the 1891 census entry says:

Thomas Jones Head M 58 Collier Denbigh Ruabon
Ann Jones Wife M 58 Denbigh Ruabon
Elizabeth Valentine Daur Wid 36 Do Do
William Jones Son S 26 Collier Do Do
Edward Do Son S 20 Terracotta Maker Do Do
Harriet Do Daur S 15 Do Do
Jane Valentine Daur S 9 Scholar Do Do
Mary E Do Daur S 1 Do Do
Robert Williams Boarder Widr 35 Collier Do Do.

I would assume that the two Valentine girls were Elizabeth's daughters and were accidentally put down as daughters instead of granddaughters.

[Merry]

In 1891 Elizabeth Valentine is listed as a widow and also as the dau of Thomas and Ann Jones. The relationship of everyone in the household should be their connection to the head (Thomas Jones), but mistakes are often made - you just need to work out which records - if any - are mistakes!! If you have an unmarried Elizabeth Valentine of the same age in another family, you need to try and find her in another household in 1891 to eliminate her (if you think this could be her, which I very much doubt), so follow her forward - for instance, can you find a marriage for her that you can prove is the right person?

There are a couple of potential Elizabeth Jones to a Valentine marriages in 1882 and 1883 in Wrexham district. It looks likely that the 1883 marriage for Jonathan Valentine was to the 'other' bride on the GR index (Sarah something, I forget now), as there is a fitting couple on the next census. I haven't been able to work out who married who from the other pair of marriages which involved an Elizabeth Jones and Thomas Valentine.